Irony is NOT a RDA.

[kyburg]

For those of you who voted 'kitty' yesterday, this fluff's for you:



For the rest, color me amazed. NOBODY said no. Not one.

Hooookay, then.

*kid gloves taken off, burned and ashes scattered*

I'm going to start this off then, with some caveats. The only thing that's going to look like a cut is a link to the original stories. And this is going to be a long one - if that upsets you, hit the scroll button now.

If I'm going to talk about this - I'm not going to hide it. If dealing with the concept of weight/body image bothers you to the point of despair? I don't know that you're going to enjoy this.

Just talking about it mind. A post cadhla did some years ago comes to mind - and gives me a bit of pause before plowing ahead. This one. I'd go check it first, you have any qualms about whether or not I've been handed 24K clues on the subject or not.

Now I'm going ask you to put that to the side. Because -

THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PRETTY.

Thought you'd wonder. At first blush? Sure looks like it.

...Then on November 29 of last year, a few weeks ago, he suffered chest pains. Wanting to live and knowing what to do, he called emergency services. The operator stayed on the phone with him as he waited for the ambulance to arrive. He collapsed and the operater listened to every sound hoping to hear his door open and help arrive. Well, she did hear everything, and what she heard astonished her.

The two ambulance attendants saw this big, fat, disabled guy, living in a messy home. They stood talking about him and decided that he wasn't worth saving. So they stood there and let him die, deciding to tell everyone that he was dead when they arrived. One more cripple out of the way, one more unnecessary life done away with. One more of us gone.

The operator immediately handed in the tape. Charges and investigations ... blah, blah, blah ...

Fact Checked - and damning in the bargain.

Fat, a poor housekeeper...and a gimp. Oh, and unmarried and childless in the bargain. Didn't even have parents to grieve his loss anymore.

*looks at pictures* I could have put that right in a couple of hours, mind. I've mentioned being 'proud' is pretty expensive, right? And he was social - he wasn't a shut-in, or housebound. But nobody deserves the fate he received - let's be clear on that. He had some reasonable expectations of the culture around him - and it failed him. Why?

Let's talk about burnout for a moment. No, really. I'm pretty sure some care providers are gonna go to jail for this - and really, losing their jobs is going to do them a favor. That's clear as a busted nose to me - these guys have seen so many of him they've lost it completely. It's burnout - in a form nobody would accept.

This is where it's gone beyond an occupational hazard and killed someone - and left everyone aghast about how it could happen.

I'm going to try - and I can only try - to give you a perspective on what it is to be the person tasked with saving your life...and can't. Because you weight more than 400 pounds.

And in particular, I'll talk from recent experience - and that's listening to the rad techs. And the rad tech students.

There isn't a story much more heartbreaking than the one about a nineteen year old that could have lost her leg after tripping over a laundry basket, and likely will have years of recovery ahead of her - it was a very near thing. Bad fall? No. She fell, sure, but wedged herself between the wall and the dryer...and it took 45 minutes to extricate her by the fire department, (after someone found her, mind) because she weighed over 380 pounds. She had dislocated her knee so badly the arteries and veins were pinched shut. She was so top heavy she couldn't free herself.

Forty five minutes - you can't free yourself - and according to Jim, she was on as much morphine as it was safe to give, and it wasn't touching the pain she was in.

Please lose the weight.

And she was one of the small ones.

Type II diabetics (and I've heard the term 'metabolic disease' as well) are a complete package - and the social Darwinists like to point out that in some populations (most of them of color), this is an evolutionary change to survive famine, and hence a normal process to weed out those that won't survive our current way of life. Adapt or die. (I'd wish these people sex, but why.)

They gain weight easily - scary easily. And getting it off again? Nearly impossible...and once they're on medication to either max out what insulin production they do have, or insulin replacement entirely? Even more so - losing weight being entirely insulin-dependent is something not for the faint of heart. You'll see the inside of an ER often, either in shock or acidosis. Promise. But the alternative is even worse.

When these people end up inpatient over 500 pounds, they are the sickest people you ever saw. They're losing limbs to amputations, having heart attacks and losing their minds having strokes. They're on dialysis. Their joints are shot, they're in constant pain and maybe even addicted to prescription medications. Physically? Decades older than their healthy peers. They die by small increments, huge leaps and in pieces.

The worst part is that every year, they get bigger - and the technology can't keep up. Most of them are bed-bound. Most of the beds are rated for about 300 pounds. (Check your bathroom scale, you haven't seen this yet. You'd think nothing was more than 300 pounds.) Up to recently, the only scale I ever saw that could measure more than that was one you rolled a wheelchair onto. That probably should have tipped me off.

You've heard the recent upgrade to "It's A Small World" at Disneyland was to deepen the tracks so the boats would stop bottoming out, right? Jim works less than 15 minutes away.

We're not talking about people who carry more than 50 pounds more. Or even 150 pounds more. Those folks get just as sick - for the same reasons - but two people can move them, if they can't move themselves. Diagnostics can be done. The bigger ones?

They break beds. They can't be moved without extreme measures. They suffocate under their own weight. X-ray machines shut down, overheating when they try to do exams on them - and the films aren't usable. Anything more would be dangerous to them - and what can be used? Doesn't work.

And they are often surrounded by family members, desperate to do anything they can for them - dearly loved - and all of them are as large or larger. Everyone of them a client at some point, of the facility. To them, and it's easy to imagine why - big is inevitable. Why fight it?

Please lose the weight.

This stuff doesn't roll off. They stay with you.

When the students graduate, if I get a chance to talk to them...I congratulate them on gaining their majority with an education, their clinical and their dedication to caring for their patients.

And then I ask them to consider what it is going to take to stay in the business of caring for others, not just to enter it. Because they don't tell you the patients are going to break your heart, infuriate you and be absolutely deaf to your fears for them. There are no classes on how to deal with burnout.

Or even how to recognize it.

You'll blow off steam with your colleagues. You'll have to - and somewhere in the mix, you all come to consensus that the really big ones can't be helped. Consciously or unconsciously...and even the patients seem to agree with you. They come in complaining of ailments, want you to help them - and it's plain as plain it's their own fault!

One day, you suggest they lose the weight, they take it wrong and report you. You can't insult patients, after all. You stop caring, after passing that warning point of getting overly involved in your patients problems - burnout is here, and you might not even notice it.

Then you start blaming them for being an inconvenience and taking up valuable time that could be spent on patients that will recover because they aren't so damn FAT.

Patients start getting labelled 'noncompliant' even before treatment begins.

And there are so many, they start to blur. You stop seeing faces.

It's so easy. Just lose the weight. Anyone can do it. It would be so easy.

And then it's all their fault.

I'm not going to go into the character assissination that already goes on towards people of size. You want a really good clue, go to YouTube, search up 'Fat Rant' and let the lady tell you all about it.

I'm not even going to say THAT'S what happened here.

We need to grieve for others besides Barry Baker. And know that the grief exists and not sublimate it.

And then I run into this thing:



Welcome to the world of confirming you're okay in the world. I speak of feeling your affluence.

Right around the waist.

I looked at that - step by step instructions and all, and thought about it. As a party food for more than twenty people? Pretty spiffy - I'm thinking of slicing that bad boy and serving it with slices of sourdough bread. Some beer to go with.

About 1/4" slice per.

Who thought that having the whole thing to yourself would be better? Or even more appropriate?

I mean, every ad I've seen for fast food is BIGGER, CHEAPER and YUMMMMMMMMMIER lately. (There's some $1 value menus going right now that are double burgers - 1/2 lb of beef - come on down!)

There's one that would feed both Jim and I for $4 right now. Seriously. And it's marketed as a meal for one person. Any 'reasonable' person would agree. It only has one soda, after all.

*headdesks*

There's been a lot of talk lately about obesity being a disease of poverty. As in - you're too broke to have anything pleasant to do but eat. You can't travel, you can't go outside, who in their right mind would stop watching television, playing games or reading books if they don't have a job? And food is EASY to come by - compared to housing or transportation, those other things that self-determination and employment demand.

I mean - get a 12 pk of soda, pound that and then recycle the cans? There's another burger, fries, and a soda for you - maybe even a couple of deep-fried tacos. There are a bunch of food banks. Not so much a decent place to work or sleep.

And fast food is cheeeeap. You get so many strokes for showing up, it's incredible.

Things aren't so bad. Have a coke and a smile. You DESERVE that cookie. And you really CAN eat the whole thing!

There's a lovely book on my shelf at home called What to Eat by Marion Nestle. It echoes my college nutrition class so eerily, decades after I took it - it's not funny.

Food isn't just big business here. It is - pun intended - HUGE.

It's nothing less than creepy the way our culture adores the people who eat to excess...and then hates them when the predictable outcome occurs.

And then makes money hand over fist selling them diet aids that don't do dick. Books. Relabeled crap that tastes like shit, probably isn't at all good for you - but it doesn't have any carbs/fat/sugar/name it this week!

Food is also one of those things that doesn't keep like - say - gold or artwork. So if you don't sell it quickly, you'll lose money and in a big way.

So we're told to eat fast - and have some more!

Don't forget how social eating is as well. GOOD TIMES.

Just don't gain weight. Well, gain TOO much. Ya gotta eat, after all.

*raises hand* I have a great-grandmother who died in her bed, over 700 lbs. If I am to believe what her daughter told my mother. And my grandmother was paranoid about her size. And no, she wasn't small, either.

Mom did Weight Watchers when I was a teenager. I did it a couple of years ago now and lost a total of 50 lbs from my high point. (I'm a bit up from the holidays, somewhere between 5 and 10 lbs more. I'm back on plan, and it'll come right back off - trust me.)

It's portion control. It's knowing how much is enough, and leaving the table afterward. Yes, that takes a whole system, meetings and support networks. It does.

Please lose the weight.

EAT EAT EAT YAY!

I have a sister who probably is over 250 lbs. I have a niece who could be her and I, put together. Cousins, ditto.

I lost the weight because my doctor threatened me with drugs for the rest of my life. It was never about the pretty - because let's be blunt. I'm not, and being thin won't make me pretty.

It will make me invisible to public scorn, however.

It's cheaper. And not in the grocery bill department. I don't need a lot of medical care, prescription drugs, adaptive equipment...hell, even my furniture doesn't wear out that fast.

I wish we rewarded people as well when they were of normal size. You just don't register on most of the radar.

And I wish we paid more attention to what being so obese does to the culture and systems that provide care around us - attention, not insults and disgust. Not indifference until someones dies of it.

It's not your fault. It's your responsiblity. It's your choice. You didn't know.

The only way out is through.

Please lose the weight.

And don't get fooled again.

Comments

[dame-of-dames.livejournal.com]

The whole thing is so sad.

I understand how that guy didn't want people in his home, because I feel the same way...and my place is so very cleaner than his.

It's a shame his family and friends didn't bust in on him once in a while to help him tidy up, especially if he'd been any sort of house proud before he got so sick.

And about the weight. Sigh, I gotta lose the poundage myself. Diabetes and the after-effects of a herniated disk (skin numbness on the right calf/foot)is scary.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

I have to add a caveat or two here.

There are way too many people out there who are disabled, and were that way before the weight arrived. If you're on steroids and painkillers and ten other drugs, all of which have 'weight gain' as a side effect, and you still can't walk unaided, the weight isn't coming off even if you do stop eating.

I'm not in a wheelchair because I'm fat; I'm fat partly because I'm in a wheelchair.

The guy who died? It may have been the weight that killed him, and he may have been able to do better. But arthritis and two hip replacements? That might not all be weight.

Yes, there are too many terrifyingly obese people out there. I see them in the clinics with me too often. (And considering the crappy job our clinic nutritionist does, I'm not surprised. Most "nutritionists" aren't getting enough training.) And I frankly resent seeing these people making themselves sicker and fatter and taking up space in the clinics and bus seats that some of us need - and if you've ever been a skinny young thing with a cane, you know no larger person is gonna give you a seat, cane or no.)

But every single time I start to think it's all a matter of willpower, I read about another crippled or ill peer who's ballooned 50 lbs after her doctor tried her on another drug, or took her off of one, or tried a new treatment plan that didn't work out. Or didn't change a damn thing, and gained 20 because her body flipped a switch for the hell of it.

I can only just restrict calories or I get sicker. I can barely exercise. I seriously doubt these 20 lbs of abdominal fat are coming off without a miracle or random act of healing. And *I am so not alone* in this boat.

Or this wheelchair. And yet fat people in wheelchairs are universally condemned as having "put themselves there". I know a girl who carries a wallet photo of herself at 98 lbs. shortly before being told not to walk any more. She's obese now, but the pre-existing heart and other health conditions mean there isn't much she can safely do about it.

WHen you're sick, calorie restriction doesn't always work. You're sick, so your body hoards. I seriously think I could starve myself to death and still be 10 lbs overweight. By the time my broken metabolism actually used the fat, my brain would be gone.

When you're homeless, a hot meal starts to look like a gift from God, and a hot meal in a restaurant is precious. I'd scrounge change for that 99 cent burger or taco at the fast-food place, because then I had a hot meal and could sit at a table and eat it with the dignity accorded any other human in a fast-food restaurant - which may not be much, but it's sometimes more than a soup kitchen allows. (Such as telling me what to eat. Few soup kitchens do special orders; you're lucky if they don't give you allergic hives.) And while that same 99 cents could buy a loaf of bread or tunafish or the like, you've got no fridge and no storage to put it in - and dear God you want something warm in winter.

THat said, there's a lot of people out there who are neither homeless/borderline starving, and who aren't (yet) sick or crippled. (THat whole family, all obese down to the schoolgirls, one on a scooter and on oxygen - your future is right there, don't you want to dodge it?) THem? No excuses.

But the disabled get enough crap thrown at us already, and more than enough "you aren't worth keeping alive", without adding the fat burden to their pile.

[odiedragon.livejournal.com]

So if obesity is sooo awful for you, and so difficult and expensive for the healthcare system to deal with.. why don't any health insurance providers cover gastric bypass surgery?

[unclejimbo.livejournal.com]

Because sadly, for the insurance companies, it is cheaper to let the obese people die...

[daphne-lage.livejournal.com]

I know my company's health provider does cover gastric bypass surgery. And the only reason I know is because I had a co-worker complain that she was denied coverage for surgery to remove her cancer riddled ovaries while her sister's gastric bypass and related rehab was covered 100%.

I guess it's kinda like how insurance will pay for IVF but NOT for birth control. (pet peeve there too)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

*shakes head* Welcome to the power of public opinion, too.

Gastric bypass surgery also is pretty high-risk, and carries a VERY high percentage of failure...and patient morbidity. Something like 20% or more.

Yeah. This stuff kills.

So - if it is perceived to be 'cosmetic' or elective? Nah uh.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me if some bright penny simply thought that since bypass patients just eat so damn less, why not just make ANYONE who wants the surgery do the same thing, and skip the expense?

*facepalm*

[odiedragon.livejournal.com]

So what's higher risk? Being fat, or having the surgery?

It's the ONLY THING I've EVER seen work on a truly obese person. We're not talking about the "Oh, I'm so fat" crowd that just wants to lose 20 pounds. I'm talking about people who want to lose 100-150+ pounds and naturally tend to being larger.

Diet and exercise don't work, no matter how much they try to claim they do. I watched my father, who was never truly obese just larger, suffer for years because of what doctors told him. He'd exercise every day. He'd starve himself (and made sure we all knew how much he was "sacrificing"). NOTHING HELPED until he was put on cholesterol medication. He's since had to be taken off, and guess what? He put more weight back on. And again, he's never been anything close to obese.

Until there's some actual HELP for obese people out there, I'm just going to live my life, come what may.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

The surgery is more immediate - definitely. You rock that boat HARD doing weight loss surgery.

Carrying the extra load? Weel - you have all the day in, day out things; joints wearing out, nothing fits, digestive upsets, high blood pressure, apnea and so on....and then of course, when everything quits competely - it's as immediate, sure.

It's an individual thing - and has to be weighed carefully, knowing your risks. That's also why it's not an automatic thing with insurance providers. Aftercare in case of complications? REALLY labor intensive, hence, really expensive. And I'm sure there have been enough lawsuits claiming negligence that have had to be litigated and then paid out over time...so there you go.

I'm one of those people exercise did NOT doing anything for, weight-loss wise. No, I did not go to the gym - and lost 50 lbs. The kick is to experiment, try, measure and change as necessary until you find what works. Everyone is just that different. (Starving? Don't work either. Not long term, that's for sure.)

In your father's case? I'd look at that medication again - something else was going on, weight loss is not normally an effect of being on one. Was it making him a bit nauseous, maybe? I'd never heard of them acting as an appetite suppressant. And why did he come off? That assumes, of course, that he'd WANT to do anything about it, neh?

Long term is slooooooow. Like, patience cubed, squared and forever. Like paint drying. You gotta find something you can stand - and be willing to put time and patience into finding it. Getting anything out of it requires waiting for it - it certainly isn't going to be as much fun as a hot fudge sundae, or as easy to get. I can assure you of that.

And if you're used to being sub par all the time? If you don't know any better, what are you missing out on?

[odiedragon.livejournal.com]

Something about it affecting his liver. He was on Lipitor.

I'm all for being in shape and not worrying about weight loss... but it's pretty clear to me that the medial community has no friggin clue how to really help people. And if they don't have an answer, I sure as hell don't.

[rin-o.livejournal.com]

that's a couple of guys that took the job for the wrooooooong reasons.

and yeah, the whole "losing weight" thing's rigged against you at this point. bleh, i'm so tired of having this rant in my own home i can't muster any enthusiasm.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't know. I think they took the job some time ago with the best of intentions.

And you know the road to hell, right? Yeah.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

When people talk about obesity and poverty going together, I immediately think of my younger days when I would live on Ramen noodles for days and weeks on end because they were 10 cents or less a pack. It was the cheapest meal in the store. Or the fact that the water pipes in my building were so nasty that I couldn't drink the water straight, and had to make it into Kool-aid, tea or coffee (All of which require sugar to make, more calories.)

Those who live in abject poverty often have no education on what is good for them. Even if we knew, we had to buy the fatty hamburger and the fattiest bacon with hardly any meat on it because its cheap. I've eaten Hamburger Helper without the hamburger. Just some grease left in the pan to make it taste like meat.

I don't think you've ever sunk to the ramen noodle and stolen condiments from fast food joints diet. Put a little more salt and some mayo on them to dress them up. That will choke the life out of your arteries. Those noodles have so much fat in them before you drown them in something so you can eat them. There's only so many ways you can eat the things.

Lean cuts of meat are more expensive than fatty cuts. If you can't afford electric and the gas is still on, you can cook that fatty meat and fry day old bread in the grease tomorrow.

Canned veggies are more expensive than starchy fatty foods and fresh ones are even more expensive.

Nobody taught me what a proper diet looks like. So I'm guessing and that's what I try to eat.

My doctor gets mad because I'm 60 lbs. overweight. I told her I've been kicked out of 3 gyms because they didn't want to be responsible for me after I told them what was wrong with me. She didn't believe me. I asked her for a fitness plan and she didn't have one for us gimps. She told me to learn to swim. I'm not allowed in the Y, exactly where am I supposed to go? Once you have X many things wrong with you, gyms are afraid you will have a problem there and sue them to death.

Diet clubs and gyms cost money. TOPS humiliated me to the point of tears because they insist everyone announce whether they lost or gained that week. Oh, the looks of disapproval when you don't lose for several weeks.

I'm still mobile and I did get one of those portable bikes you stick in front of your chair.

Who enables the people that weigh so much they can't leave their bed? What goes through their minds when they bring in another meal? Where can they get help?

[djdig.livejournal.com]

moropus, I completely empathize with your comments on the cost of food.

I've been on weight watchers for the past year and lost 40 pounds. My grocery bill went up because despite the smaller portions I was eating more fresh foods, which are higher cost.

I was recently laid off, and am now trying to stretch my food shopping $. The "unhealthy" food sales look better each day.

Your TOPS story made me tear up a bit. That is a HORRID. I'm sorry they made you announce your weight. We've all had bad weeks and plateaus. You shouldn't be forced to share that with a group. Sharing should always be on your terms.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I'm really resisting adding comments right now - I want people to talk, I've shot my mouth off enough right now.

But - one thing I need to mention.

My Mom who did WW? She's about 120 lbs or so? She's a bit wee, about 5'3" or so these days. I'm 5'6" and around 135 - 140 (working it down right now, so not real clear today) -

Mom has a younger sister, who tipped the scales over 250, most of the time I can recall. She was *always* waaaay too heavy, and has seen many ramifications thereof.

Mom has had one moderate heart attack, and a big cancer surgery.

Her younger sister has had four heart attacks of varying degree, multiple stent placements, both kinds of macular degeneration, both knees have been replaced (there's a shoulder replacement scheduled for this month), and oh yeah - she's the one who ended up with the RA as well. She's about the same height as Mom.

She's easily three times her size. Still.

Mom did WW. Her sister did TOPS. Just mentioning in passing. I know TOPS is cheaper - and that's about it.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

So how much did Barry Baker weigh?

The only photo I've seen is one where he seems to be sitting in his pub. Its hard to guess weight when sitting. I've seen plenty of bigger people and not given them a second thought. You are right, fat is getting more common. I blame drug and food companies.

I do wish the UK would bring back the death penalty for these two monsters who could stand there and discuss what they were going to say while somebody died in fron of them. Thank whatever you believe in the phone was still open and being recorded.

I heard 100 lbs. over weight is the new normal. Since my doctor can't even give me diet and exercise advice for the disabled and I take around 10 pills a day, many of which list weight gain as a side effect, I am not in the least surprised.

I wasn't fat before I started taking all these pills and I tore up my joints lifting weights, running and doing manual labor. I got hurt, then got fat because they couldn't fix me. That's well established.

BTW, a pound of fresh carrots cost $4 today. That would have bought enough ramen for a week.

Think I might read your book. There's so much conflicting advice out there. And that government pyramind thing that says eat all that grain? We used to give grain to livestock to make them fat for market. Are we so different from them?
The only reason I stayed a reasonable size on the ramen diet was I didn't have a car and couldn't afford the bus unless it rained. I walked miles everywhere I had to go.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I also have to say something about the ramen.

I was the one who was in school the year someone died in the dorms due to electrolyte imbalance due to living on ramen 24/7 - damn fool poisoned himself on the salt, and his heart stopped. I think he was 22 years old.

No urban legend, that. So. I lived on scrambled eggs instead!

I was 5'6" and 96 pounds when I graduated!

It's all in the portion control. Serious about that.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

Makes you wonder how kids that age ever survive. Ramen diets ketchup soup, fried bread, yuch. At least I did eat meat occasionally and got thousands of carbs from all the Koolaid.

[bluemoonpnw.livejournal.com]

When the GoodEx and I were homeless and Elder son was three we lived for a long time on Campbells veggie soups stretched out with ramen noodles. Never just the noodles though.
We'd double the water and crunch them in as the soup heated over the fire. I always thought of them as a stretcher food, not a food in itself.

[foogod.livejournal.com]

Be careful of numbers. Particularly numbers like "100 lbs overweight", because among other things, doctors keep revising the definition of "overweight" downward over and over again with little regard to what that actually means for people.

Our very definitions of these markers are completely skewed now, in my opinion, because the medical community has gotten so utterly preoccupied with only one disease (heart disease) that they ignore everything else. There are studies that have shown that people who are currently considered a "healthy" weight by current medical standards actually have a higher morbidity rate than people who are slightly overweight. What does that mean? It means a "healthy" weight is actually less healthy than being overweight. There's something seriously screwed up about that, but if any doctor tries to say anything about it the entire community comes down on them like a load of bricks, because thinner must be better.

So to be honest, from the studies I've seen, saying somebody's "100 lbs overweight" really should be translated to "60-70 lbs overweight", because the current definition of "the right weight" is actually at least 30 lbs underweight for most people. Mind you, even 70 lbs overweight is still bordering on obese, so it's still a problem, but...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Well, the highest leading cause for heart disease? Not being overweight - exactly.

It's diabetes.

And what can REALLY lead to diabetes, that can be affected the most by a change in lifestyle? Being overweight.

Being overweight can - note not always, CAN - lead to hypertension (another big vascular killer - I'd rather die of a heart attack than survive a stroke) as well. The numbers follow each other like carts follow horses.

But there's nothing like being diabetic to really fuck things up. It ups the risk exponentially - and since it's proven that in some cases of Type II, you can get rid of it by getting the weight down? It's worth pushing in every case. Every last one of them.

It also doesn't help that most of the studies out of restricted calorie diets support longevity more than just about ANYTHING else. (And of course, there are big $$ research bucks being spend on trying to mimic the effect on the genes artificially, without restricting caloric intake...*facesmacks*)

Study this, study that. So many of the 'studies' are printed to sell soap and never report the important parts - which to me are - are they double-blind (nope), of a reasonable size and breadth (no idea) and over a long period of time? (UH.)

I go back to that really great class I got in 1979. Yup, that long ago.

15 lbs over is too much. And back then, 5'6" was 120-145. It is now, no real change. (15 lbs under? Too little.)

At 183, I was hypertensive, my lipid profile was WHACK and there were other complaints.

At 150, they dissapeared. At 133 (which I *think* is where we put me at goal), I might as well have been 18 again.

People have a lot of company these days - you really can't point at anyone in the room who meets criteria like this all that often - but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

(I wonder if I still have that textbook somewhere....)

[shannon-elaine.livejournal.com]

*BRAVO*

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

*bows* Thankee.

[djdig.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the great post Donna.

There are so many issues around obesity that people don't think of.

I too, have/had morbidly obese family. The kind you see on intervention type talk shows when they need to break down a wall to get them out of a house.

The house, looks the same as the picture in the Guardian story.

I'm sad to say that I haven't seen a 2nd cousin in years, because as she got heavier she got more embarrassed to have people visit. I go to the house to visit (her sister lives with her) she won't let me into her bedroom to see her.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

There was a new member at my WW meetings the last few weeks before I went Lifetime - who was the sister who lived with her much more heavy, bed-ridden sister.

Poor thing looked like she was sitting inside a stack of tires, I kid you not - armpits to knees. I hope she stayed and did well - because she was also the person who LOST more than anyone I'd ever seen in her first weeks. Something like over 10 pounds the first week, near six the next. Losing a lot the first weeks is common, as it's mostly water and glycogen stores being converted...but it's also a percentage of what you've got to lose, and that was impressive.

So much for not being able to lose weight.

You're allowed to praise people to high heaven for losing (at least where I had my meetings) - and if you didn't? You want a shoulder? There were plenty.

No scolding. Who needs it?!

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

In the various communities I'm a part of, one of the things I run into are "gainers", or people who want to be fat. It is a surprisingly large-no pun intended-community, and it's frightening. A lot of these people are fairly young, and they find being morbidly obese to be sexy and attractive.

Its something that has always boggled my mind, and left me feeling more than a little repulsed. Once you hit the age of 25, that weight is there for good. It's now your permanent weight, no matter how hard you work, no matter how much effort you put into things, you will always be that weight or more, now and forever. Even if you lose the weight, your body will remember where it was and will always, always ALWAYS fight to get back there however it can.

And God help you if you ever point that out to them. You will be in direct violation of rules 1-3 of the 5 Holy Laws of Geekdom and will find yourself pilloried to a fare-thee-well.

There *are* those folks who have genetic problems, as you point out. And anyone consigned to a wheelchair is pretty much engaged in a fight for their life. As for the "eating ramen because it's cheap" excuse? I don't buy it. There are all kinds of things you can do to get fresh, wholesome food. Yes, it costs more, but too bad. If it means eating less, then so be it.

Buying fatty meat because it's cheap doesn't wash with me; buy lean anyway. You get more of the good stuff. And I'm not sure where some folks shop, but an ultra-lean London Broil is a lot cheaper than a NY Strip, sirloin or prime rib. And there's always chicken.

Being homeless? I can't touch that one. I mean, personally, myself, I would be going for thrifty buys. I'd also be scouring the woods, lakes and streams for wild food and game, but that's me. And if I were in the city, those park squirrels would soon be in my hotpot.

But like feyandstrange says, sometimes you just need to feel like a normal person. And quite frankly, there aren't many "Jeremiah Johnson" people like myself that end up homeless. Or if there are, you don't see them much.

Ultimately, I've seen the price you pay with things like ramen and pre-packaged foods. It simply is not worth it to me.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking pigeon pie, myself. But I like pie.

You know, I hadn't heard the 25-year rule. At any point, you can add fat cells - but after that, you can only empty them again, not remove them. (Unless there's outside help, like surgery, of course.)

From birth. I'd submit that to Mythbusters for further study.

Gainers? Well, the shot from the hip here is 'priviledged much?' More than that, and my snark will be showing.

[foogod.livejournal.com]

I can say from personal experience that the 25-year rule is a myth. I have, over my life, been a variety of sizes, and have on numerous occasions successfully changed my body's "set point" for the weight it tries to maintain. There was no magic year marker where it solidified into some immovable thing.

Now mind you, how easy it is to change this depends on the person (for lots of people, it's harder to change than it appears to be for me), but everything I've seen suggests that everybody can do it, no matter how old they are, it just takes a certain amount of work. (Of course it also does become more work the older you get, so it's better to get it where you want it earlier in life if you can...)

And the number of fat cells you have is really completely irrelevant. Even if you have tons of fat cells, that does not mean that it somehow magically takes your body a different number of calories to gain a pound of extra weight. The whole fat cell "fact" thing that gets quoted so often is generally just a scare tactic or excuse tactic, depending on who's using it and why. It's bad science used for effect.

(It is also technically possible for your body to lose fat cells, but this generally requires being extremely low-fat with a reduced calorie intake for a sustained amount of time, at which point the body will naturally begin to catabolize the fat cells. The problem is that the point at which it does this is also well into the point where it's catabolizing muscle tissue too, so it's not generally a healthy thing to do. As mentioned, since there's really nothing wrong with having extra fat cells anyway, there's no real reason anybody should attempt to do this.)

[bluemoonpnw.livejournal.com]

Okay, first I saw the kitty. Awww. Cute Kitty.
Then I saw the bacon wrapped thing.
We went to a party where they'd made two things sorta like that. It was a pork loin stuffed with spicy sausage and stuff and wrapped in bacon to bbq. BUT!!! There were two for about forty people, not like anyone was eating one, or even a large portion of one for themselves.
It was an awesome pork loin. The slices were about a half inch, and maybe a teaspoon of sausage and ?peppers?onions?cilantro? in the middle.
But sausage and bacon wrapped in bacon? Much as I like both that's WAY too much for me.

[rin-o.livejournal.com]

people have forgotten that if you're going to cook with bacon you need to learn to respect the bacon.

because if you don't respect the bacon, it'll destroy you. like power, bacon corrupts. and absolute bacon corrupts absolutely.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Awesome.