Something I need to clarify -

[kyburg]

Guns in my house.

One, there won't be any. House is too small, in the midst of an urban area that precludes any useful purpose one would serve (I'd consider a rifle if I had a place to use it. I don't. No rifle, either.) except to be a hazard.

Listen to what I say about the house being too small. A cast iron skillet has no less reach as any gun would. THAT small. If I can hit you over the head instead of shoot you, a MagLite is easier to buy, own and maintain. Safer, too. A different strategy is required when you have this kind of environment when it comes to home protection. (I really wish more people would consider this tack, really really.) You scale and evaluate, and a gun is sometimes Not The Right Tool For the Job.

We've seen it over and over again - people buy handguns, get slightly better than Really Fucking Scary as far as aim is concerned, put the gun under the pillow/in a nightstand/you name it, and in some cases? Don't ever unload the weapon or put the safety on.

In a house with children, and if the kids didn't find it and WOW NEAT BLAM, the next time someone had an argument or thought life insurance payments could go to work the next day instead of them - well, read the papers. A Maglite might hurt some, but you'd be alive afterward. Ditto the cast iron skillet, the aluminum baseball bat - whatever. A gun can turn some of the most routine disputes into funerals. I'd rather not.

I've had three house fires, two burglaries. You survive lost stuffs. *weighs* Nope. Gun not a good idea. Too costly. Other weapons more cost-effective. And we think about reducing the risks overall - that's also more community-centric and cheaper overall in every way I can name.

Shooting is not a hobby with us. *thinks* Even if it were, I wouldn't store the guns at home. See above.

Your mileage may vary. This is what we do.

Now. Kid has been playing defensive from the get go, and as long as it has been clearly play - no problem. (Power Rangers, Ultraman...and now some Naruto, Avatar and other stuff. He mimics them all.)

I have real concerns when the play ends, and he turns to shooting people he's unhappy with. There's a difference, and you're going to have to take my word on it.

You don't - EVER - shoot people. And particularly NEVER in anger. Not with sticks, fingers, TV remotes - anything. (I'd be just as adamant about throwing rocks, wouldn't I? He doesn't do that. Even tossing toys is VERY rare. So.)

There's your point of reference.

Comments

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

BoyZilla is not allowed to play Shooty (gun) Games. Period. Apparently, this is "not fair," but he still can't tell me what his basis for comparison is... I'm so mean. I make Teh Thinkies.

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

Understood very well.

What will you do for these things that come up in play - water guns (squirting), nerf guns (shoot foam thingies) and swords? Not to critize or anything - but Alan has played with all these things as a normal boy and you would have to clarify if they are ok for you not.

[vampireanneke.livejournal.com]

I want to help you, but I'm not a mother or anything. But I'm a web expert and found the following article, it looked pretty useful from what I read: http://www.parentingbookmark.com/pages/articleMB01.htm
(he's abit young for some of the tips, but they may still work)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Water guns are Outdoor Toys and will be mutual. Right now, there are some tub toys that squirt, and we've been clear that you squirt things AWAY from other people. (Nope, you don't even get to splash Daddy/Mommy. Splash in the tub, yes. Splash other people outside the tub, no.)

Swords, nope. Anything that shoots projectiles is not brought home. I'm thinking about age 12 to start anything like that. They aren't at preschool, and that's a good rule of thumb. Besides, that's another thing to keep track of. (Where did the ammo go? Uh, oh.)

You toss balls. You scoot trucks. Plenty of kinetics there. Knock over blocks. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see instead. Full body work.

[kuangning]

This makes sense to me. Allowing kids to play at shooting *anything* out of anger, on the other hand, has never made sense -- you can cause each other pain with a well-aimed water pistol, and I don't want you learning that it's okay to cause someone pain because you're angry with them, kiddo. So you play with your water pistol on a hot day when everyone wants to be cooling down, but when the voices get raised for anything other than squeals and whoops of joy, the water pistols get put away.

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

I wish you luck and patience in changing this...

Not that I don't think you can, but it's going to take time.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

You're fooling yourself, Donna, but that's your right. I hope you never need a gun. If you ever do, and don't have one, I hope your victimizer is merciful to the boy, at least; it won't be his fault that Mommy and Daddy refused to defend him.

As for us, we use and respect guns. My boy is being tauight that a gun is just a tool, like a shovel. You use a shovel to dig a hole in the yard; you use a gun to dig a hole in the skull of the guy who's trying to hurt Mommy. I sleep with a loaded and unlocked Mossberg 500 "Defender" in 12 gauge right by the bed, and my trusty old Marlin 50 .22 right beside it. (Hans is never left alone or with strangers, so I don't worry about him getting hold of them.)

Anyone that comes in my house without my permission or a valid warrant gets their head blown off, period.

God forbid, of course!

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

I'm impressed with your boundaries. I don't share the same views as you on the toys, which is why asked but I do appreciate your thoughts.

It's never come up with Alan, but I knew someone had issues with a certain toy, I would make it a non option before that child and Alan played.

[paperwings86.livejournal.com]

"...There is a gap between how adults see weapons play and how children experience it. As one psychiatrist put it, "We are so afraid of aggression in this society that we haven't been able to talk intelligently about it."1 While adults disapprove, children are often doing the child's work of play: experimenting with power and excitement, action and reaction, in a safe, make-believe world. I remember a similar disconnect when my first-grade teacher asked us not to carry our dolls by their hair. "That hurts!" she would exclaim. Didn't she understand that it was just pretend? I was genuinely sorry to upset her, but what was the big deal?

We flinch to see a doll carried by its hair because we don't want our daughters doing that to their children. We don't enjoy seeing our sons shooting each other, either. Toy guns are bad enough; real ones are unthinkable. Jessie, a children's dance teacher and mother of two, sums up the tension many parents feel: "I question the need for violent play. I used to be totally against it because of my pacifist notions, but I do see that some kids—boys, especially—are attracted to weapons. I think it may actually be healthy for them to play it out. I worry that suppressing it would make it worse."2 Parents are in a bind: It feels wrong to allow weapons play, and it feels wrong to forbid it..."



http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/discipline/bang-bang.html

[yzzy.livejournal.com]

PS - Frying pan is my weapon of choice for home defense too. So is a dog. I got both!

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Good post. Aggression is just as much part of the human psyche as is love, and, like love, is a positive good if used in naccordance with the natural law.

[kuangning]

I'm not Donna and I can't speak for her and don't pretend to, but this comment sounds to me out-of-line. I say that as a policeman's daughter and a sometime security guard who's handled guns and fired guns and who is not afraid of a gun. The prerequisite for owning and carrying a weapon is the self-knowledge that you are, if it comes to it, prepared to pick it up, point it at a person, and end their life. You have to be willing to carry their blood on your conscience for the rest of your life. It is also the willingness to carry on your conscience any accidental harm that comes to yourself or someone else because of your weapon.

You cannot make that decision for anyone else; it is a personal, fundamental thing. You also should never attempt to convince, shame, or harass someone who's thought about it and decided differently that they're less of a person because they decided the risk outweighs the benefits to them. My personal reaction is how dare you decide that she's not willing to defend her child just because she chooses not to own a gun? Is a gun the only weapon that qualifies as defense? Were I you, I would apologise.

Incidentally, just because you've made the decision for yourself doesn't mean you've made it for your child; I hope that if the day ever comes when your child is within reach of the gun and decides not to shoot in your defense, that you won't start thinking of him as less of a person or discount his other actions on your behalf.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

The prerequisite for owning and carrying a weapon is the self-knowledge that you are, if it comes to it, prepared to pick it up, point it at a person, and end their life.

Yes. My dad taught me "Never point a gun at anything you aren't ready and willing to kill." A gun in the hands of someone who thinks they won't have to fire it is a dangerous thing.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's any one single correct way to parent, and probably not any one single best way. Parents are different and kids are different and life situations are different.

My younger son is 22 and has been allowed to play any violent video game he ever wanted to. He is a kind, thoughtful, and gentle man; he may have once hit one of his sisters when they were little kids, but if he did (I don't remember), it's the only violent action he has ever taken toward a human being. One size does not fit all.

[gallo-de-pelea.livejournal.com]

IIRC, dogs are one of the top burglar deterrents.


edit: this does not, however, mean that they themselves do not burgle socks or bags of chips

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

And I'm not without weapons.

Yet again, Bruce caught the code words and ignored the content.

A cast iron skillet has no less reach as any gun would.

You're in my house, I can KILL YOU with one blow from a selected object. And there are plenty within reach. Do you think I'd let you in with a gun? Or keep it if you drew it?

The front of the house is also windows. I can see what approaches, long before it's in range.

You scale and evaluate, and a gun is sometimes Not The Right Tool For the Job.

To think a gun is the Best Thing all the time, in every situation...is butt lazy. Period.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I can buy as many as I want, when I want and I can take them on any airplane I want.

Anytime, anywhere - and no government agency is going to give a damn about it.

[kuangning]

My turn to apologise, I see; I was under the impression I was addressing a rational and reasonable adult. I stand corrected, and now know exactly what weight to assign to anything you might say. Carry on. ;)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I have dogs on either side of me. I'll get geese...or peacocks. If the need arises.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

I understand the context perfectly, and I still say you're fooling yourself. The bad guy isn't going to have a skillet or a peacock or a flashlight; he is going to have a gun, and if you don't have one as well, then you and your son become his property, to do with as he pleases.

But that's your business. I will pray that God keeps you and yours safe.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Unless he's a sniper (and if that's the case, game over anyway - HI GOD), he won't get a chance to use it.

I know - and manage - my risks. BUTT LAZY.

And 15 points away for making conservatives look crazy and stupid, Bruce. Thanks a bunch.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Play is play. That's one thing. There's problem solving, which is something else entirely.

We correct behaviors in small children. It's called teaching.

And I truly believe you get the world you work for in this regard.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Violent video games are something else, in another category entirely.

Would it surprise you to know he *loves* watching Jim play Pokemon on his DS? It's all fights. ALL THE TIME.

Now, Grand Theft Auto? Never coming in the house. That rule has been in place for years.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

LOL. Let me know when I'm supposed to give a damn what people on the Internet think.