Something I need to clarify -

[kyburg]

Guns in my house.

One, there won't be any. House is too small, in the midst of an urban area that precludes any useful purpose one would serve (I'd consider a rifle if I had a place to use it. I don't. No rifle, either.) except to be a hazard.

Listen to what I say about the house being too small. A cast iron skillet has no less reach as any gun would. THAT small. If I can hit you over the head instead of shoot you, a MagLite is easier to buy, own and maintain. Safer, too. A different strategy is required when you have this kind of environment when it comes to home protection. (I really wish more people would consider this tack, really really.) You scale and evaluate, and a gun is sometimes Not The Right Tool For the Job.

We've seen it over and over again - people buy handguns, get slightly better than Really Fucking Scary as far as aim is concerned, put the gun under the pillow/in a nightstand/you name it, and in some cases? Don't ever unload the weapon or put the safety on.

In a house with children, and if the kids didn't find it and WOW NEAT BLAM, the next time someone had an argument or thought life insurance payments could go to work the next day instead of them - well, read the papers. A Maglite might hurt some, but you'd be alive afterward. Ditto the cast iron skillet, the aluminum baseball bat - whatever. A gun can turn some of the most routine disputes into funerals. I'd rather not.

I've had three house fires, two burglaries. You survive lost stuffs. *weighs* Nope. Gun not a good idea. Too costly. Other weapons more cost-effective. And we think about reducing the risks overall - that's also more community-centric and cheaper overall in every way I can name.

Shooting is not a hobby with us. *thinks* Even if it were, I wouldn't store the guns at home. See above.

Your mileage may vary. This is what we do.

Now. Kid has been playing defensive from the get go, and as long as it has been clearly play - no problem. (Power Rangers, Ultraman...and now some Naruto, Avatar and other stuff. He mimics them all.)

I have real concerns when the play ends, and he turns to shooting people he's unhappy with. There's a difference, and you're going to have to take my word on it.

You don't - EVER - shoot people. And particularly NEVER in anger. Not with sticks, fingers, TV remotes - anything. (I'd be just as adamant about throwing rocks, wouldn't I? He doesn't do that. Even tossing toys is VERY rare. So.)

There's your point of reference.

Comments

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

BoyZilla is not allowed to play Shooty (gun) Games. Period. Apparently, this is "not fair," but he still can't tell me what his basis for comparison is... I'm so mean. I make Teh Thinkies.

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

Understood very well.

What will you do for these things that come up in play - water guns (squirting), nerf guns (shoot foam thingies) and swords? Not to critize or anything - but Alan has played with all these things as a normal boy and you would have to clarify if they are ok for you not.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Water guns are Outdoor Toys and will be mutual. Right now, there are some tub toys that squirt, and we've been clear that you squirt things AWAY from other people. (Nope, you don't even get to splash Daddy/Mommy. Splash in the tub, yes. Splash other people outside the tub, no.)

Swords, nope. Anything that shoots projectiles is not brought home. I'm thinking about age 12 to start anything like that. They aren't at preschool, and that's a good rule of thumb. Besides, that's another thing to keep track of. (Where did the ammo go? Uh, oh.)

You toss balls. You scoot trucks. Plenty of kinetics there. Knock over blocks. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see instead. Full body work.

[vampireanneke.livejournal.com]

I want to help you, but I'm not a mother or anything. But I'm a web expert and found the following article, it looked pretty useful from what I read: http://www.parentingbookmark.com/pages/articleMB01.htm
(he's abit young for some of the tips, but they may still work)

[kuangning]

This makes sense to me. Allowing kids to play at shooting *anything* out of anger, on the other hand, has never made sense -- you can cause each other pain with a well-aimed water pistol, and I don't want you learning that it's okay to cause someone pain because you're angry with them, kiddo. So you play with your water pistol on a hot day when everyone wants to be cooling down, but when the voices get raised for anything other than squeals and whoops of joy, the water pistols get put away.

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

I wish you luck and patience in changing this...

Not that I don't think you can, but it's going to take time.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

You're fooling yourself, Donna, but that's your right. I hope you never need a gun. If you ever do, and don't have one, I hope your victimizer is merciful to the boy, at least; it won't be his fault that Mommy and Daddy refused to defend him.

As for us, we use and respect guns. My boy is being tauight that a gun is just a tool, like a shovel. You use a shovel to dig a hole in the yard; you use a gun to dig a hole in the skull of the guy who's trying to hurt Mommy. I sleep with a loaded and unlocked Mossberg 500 "Defender" in 12 gauge right by the bed, and my trusty old Marlin 50 .22 right beside it. (Hans is never left alone or with strangers, so I don't worry about him getting hold of them.)

Anyone that comes in my house without my permission or a valid warrant gets their head blown off, period.

God forbid, of course!

[kuangning]

I'm not Donna and I can't speak for her and don't pretend to, but this comment sounds to me out-of-line. I say that as a policeman's daughter and a sometime security guard who's handled guns and fired guns and who is not afraid of a gun. The prerequisite for owning and carrying a weapon is the self-knowledge that you are, if it comes to it, prepared to pick it up, point it at a person, and end their life. You have to be willing to carry their blood on your conscience for the rest of your life. It is also the willingness to carry on your conscience any accidental harm that comes to yourself or someone else because of your weapon.

You cannot make that decision for anyone else; it is a personal, fundamental thing. You also should never attempt to convince, shame, or harass someone who's thought about it and decided differently that they're less of a person because they decided the risk outweighs the benefits to them. My personal reaction is how dare you decide that she's not willing to defend her child just because she chooses not to own a gun? Is a gun the only weapon that qualifies as defense? Were I you, I would apologise.

Incidentally, just because you've made the decision for yourself doesn't mean you've made it for your child; I hope that if the day ever comes when your child is within reach of the gun and decides not to shoot in your defense, that you won't start thinking of him as less of a person or discount his other actions on your behalf.

[violet-tigress1.livejournal.com]

Thatis a horrible thing to say! How can you even suggest that she would not defend her child, just because she refuses to keep a gun in the house? There are other ways to defend yourself, you know.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

...I sure hate to say this, but in light of how insensitive your remarks here are, I have to say: I hope to hell your kid never shoots himself with those guns. Or you or Mommy (and what, Mommy can't defend herself? Sexism much?) Or that Junior doesn't take those guns to school because a bully hurt him.

A shovel is designed to dig; a gun is designed to kill.

[unclejimbo.livejournal.com]

Ah, but I do have a nice, 3 foot sword good for sticking things with. I know how to use it, and I will fight dirty. Xander will be well defended, count on it.

I was in the service and had a firm respect for firearms and gun safety hammered home by experts. I can still field strip an M-16 if need be. Not bad for it being over 25 years since I learned how.

I am glad you are teaching a solid respect for firearms to your children. It is the people who have weapons but don't teach their children weapon safety that are the biggest problems out there.

[paperwings86.livejournal.com]

"...There is a gap between how adults see weapons play and how children experience it. As one psychiatrist put it, "We are so afraid of aggression in this society that we haven't been able to talk intelligently about it."1 While adults disapprove, children are often doing the child's work of play: experimenting with power and excitement, action and reaction, in a safe, make-believe world. I remember a similar disconnect when my first-grade teacher asked us not to carry our dolls by their hair. "That hurts!" she would exclaim. Didn't she understand that it was just pretend? I was genuinely sorry to upset her, but what was the big deal?

We flinch to see a doll carried by its hair because we don't want our daughters doing that to their children. We don't enjoy seeing our sons shooting each other, either. Toy guns are bad enough; real ones are unthinkable. Jessie, a children's dance teacher and mother of two, sums up the tension many parents feel: "I question the need for violent play. I used to be totally against it because of my pacifist notions, but I do see that some kids—boys, especially—are attracted to weapons. I think it may actually be healthy for them to play it out. I worry that suppressing it would make it worse."2 Parents are in a bind: It feels wrong to allow weapons play, and it feels wrong to forbid it..."



http://www.mothering.com/articles/growing_child/discipline/bang-bang.html

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Good post. Aggression is just as much part of the human psyche as is love, and, like love, is a positive good if used in naccordance with the natural law.

[yzzy.livejournal.com]

PS - Frying pan is my weapon of choice for home defense too. So is a dog. I got both!

[gallo-de-pelea.livejournal.com]

IIRC, dogs are one of the top burglar deterrents.


edit: this does not, however, mean that they themselves do not burgle socks or bags of chips

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's any one single correct way to parent, and probably not any one single best way. Parents are different and kids are different and life situations are different.

My younger son is 22 and has been allowed to play any violent video game he ever wanted to. He is a kind, thoughtful, and gentle man; he may have once hit one of his sisters when they were little kids, but if he did (I don't remember), it's the only violent action he has ever taken toward a human being. One size does not fit all.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Violent video games are something else, in another category entirely.

Would it surprise you to know he *loves* watching Jim play Pokemon on his DS? It's all fights. ALL THE TIME.

Now, Grand Theft Auto? Never coming in the house. That rule has been in place for years.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

As a veteran of both Gulf Wars, I'd like to point out that people are killed by cast-iron frying pans, mag-lights and other blunt objects. This latest stupid Gulf war is more like gang rivalries than anything else I can think of. People get killed by common household items every day over there.

If you are adverse to killing an intruder, beating them with a blunt object is not the course to take. How will anyone know the difference between a killing blow and one that simply knocks somebody cold? We are fragile creatures and it doesn't take much to kill us. A few people have no reaction to mace or pepper spray either. But I have to say I'm not sure if you are opposed to killing an intruder.

In that case, all you can really do is grab the kid, jump out a window and run in a jagged line. Staggering back and forth will increase your odds of survival greatly because most people are horrible shots. Keep going until you find a place to call from. If you have a friend that lives a few blocks away, hope they are home and go there. If you stop anywhere visible from your house, you could be shot trying to escape. Trying to get your car keys while there is an intruder in the house will be so complicated it won't be worth trying unless you wear one around your neck at all times.

If you aren't prepared to kill, grab the kid and run. Know the location of the nearest public phone and go there to make the call yourself. Don't count on somebody hearing the break-in(generally silent) and calling for you.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Ask Jim who had Maglites and zip-ties in her carry-on on the first flight we took after 9/11.

You threaten me, you are going DOWN. (Now, running is probably the best plan and most likely. Particularly as I have been taught - even the best martial arts are designed to let you GET AWAY, period. But. You get inside my space, that's the plan. I've had someone attack me, and I won't allow it again.)

[blindgeoff.livejournal.com]

Best of luck with the 'no guns' thing... my sister tried that with my nephew - he could make a 'shooter' out of damn near anything. Legos, tinker-toys, even hot wheels cars! Possibly the ol' "forbidden fruit" effect.

He turned out OK in the end, I'm sure Xander will too.

Oh, and 'no guns in the house?' You have a small child. Unless you live on the disputed border between 2 gangs, you're probably better off without one, especially with a mom who seems quite confident in her ability to wield a skillet!

[purdypiedad.livejournal.com]

You make such excellent points. My cousins are all hunters. Therefore, they do have guns in their house. In order to keep the kids safe, they teach the kids to NEVER point guns at people... any kind of gun, real or toy. They don't have access to the real guns until they've proven their safety and responsibility with toy ones.

I'm not opposed to gun ownership, but I've chosen the same as you while I have a young child in the house. I don't hunt. I have no need for a gun.

[monkeyfruit.livejournal.com]

Why have all the comments become about real guns?

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Because guns are cool?

Interesting topic.

[ksnarf.livejournal.com]

You have made some fantastic choices, firearm's are not the catch-all solution for home defense and props to you for finding something that works better for you.

Having taught basic firearm safety as well as firearm home defense I have had the pleasure of teaching a lot of people who put too much faith in either their own abilities or the function of the firearm. Most people don't have the mindset to kill with purpose when given the choice. I have met lifetime gun owner's who have no concept of what firearm home defense means, to kill. A firearm shouldn't be used to scare an intruder away, nor to wound them. Far too many people assume that once the intruder see's a gun pointing at them, they will just run away. There is also the first-time gun owner who tries to learn as much as they can before make the decision to use a firearm for home defense.

One of the most basic rules we teach our students; If you cannot make the decision to kill, not wound or threaten an intruder, don't pickup your firearm.

Since it hasn't been posted yet. the 4 basic rules of handling a firearm.
1: assume the weapon is loaded.
2: never point your weapon at anything you are not determined to destroy
3: verify the area to the left, right in front of and most importantly behind your target before firing
4: keep your finger clear of the trigger until the decision to fire has been made.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

I really respect and admire you stance here, and wish you a lot of luck with it; it's gonna be hard to get that through to a kid who isn't going to understand *why* it's wrong at first.

Many of these arguments are why I favor a Taser, although I'd be damn sure to keep one away from kids. (In my case: look, I'm in a powerchair. I CANNOT run away from muggers, and I am a target because some people assume wheelchair means I carry expensive pain meds in my purse. So I went for a distance weapon.)

It's difficult to impossible to suicide with one; ditto to kill with one; and has a limited range, so no ricochets or through-the-wall shots to hurt an unintended victim.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Tasers don't always stop the aggressor. What will you do if an attacker keeps on comin after you tase him?

[angelx.livejournal.com]

okay, here's my 2 cents since everyone seems to have an opinion here. personally, I wouldnt have a gun anywhere near my house. if burgularies is a problem, there are different alternatives such as an alarm system...

as for the fires, get lots of smoke detectors...and carbon monoxide detectors....

take care donna.