*sighs*

[kyburg]

I really don't like it when the media helps me corroborate a stance I posted about recently.

This is also the world of child abuse. This time - it's just a woman who gave birth to her three kids - two of which are now case files, one of which is a homicide.

19 years old, and had three kids - one of which was 3. I'll also ask you to note the timeline: report made on a prior issue to DCFS by the LAPD March 1st, after they got called prior (how much prior is not reported) Appointment made - but not done? Child drowns April 1st.

They only have time for homicides.

(reannon, is it appropriate not to mention if there were any other adults in the home?)

Comments

Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[moropus.livejournal.com]

I think schools should replace band, football and art with mandatory child rearing classes.

Sports and entertainment kind of classes are fun and draw attention to the school, but nobody is preparing these kids for real life.

I bet she can't balance a checkbook, either.

Nobody taught her to be a grown up and she doesn't know how. I feel sorry for her.

Maybe schools should get rid of all the fun things and actually prepare kids to live life. How to fill out an application, how to behave at an interview, how to bathe and care for a child and maybe birth control so you don't have 3 kids at 19?

And where on earth is the sperm donor? Forcing him to make cash deposits every month is one thing but the hours a day it takes to keep 3 babies quiet are unreal. Weekly visitation should be forced on some of the sperm donors just so the moms can sleep on Saturday afternoons and the sperm donors can have a turn balancing 3 kids at once.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[reannon.livejournal.com]

Meep. Most cases of shaken baby syndrome - damn near all - were teenage fathers put in charge of the child, sometimes for the first time. Sperm donor does not make a father. I wish the solution were that easy. :(

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

Define "fun" things.

And at what age would you start this "how to fill out an application, how to behave at an interview" etc sort of thing?

Would you start teaching how to read and sign a contract at age 9? 8? Or maybe you'd prefer teaching a child how to WRITE a contract at age 8... with threats of beating if they don't do it the way it is "supposed" to be done? Before you say "doesn't happen that way", think again.

Determine what sort of environment the bio-parents are existing in...

Sperm and egg donors DO NOT a parent make. Ask me how I know this. I DARE YOU.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[moonwalker.livejournal.com]

I think schools should replace band, football and art with mandatory child rearing classes.


You and my mother would have gotten along fine. Oh that frivolous art, she'd say, you'll have to give that up when you get married because your husband won't like it.

In her mind it was mandatory it to have kids. I see you agree that it is there is no personal choice, that EVERYONE MUST HAVE KIDS SOMEDAY, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE CHOICE, BIRTH CONTROL DOES NOT EXIST, AND FUN IN SCHOOL IS VERBOTEN!!

I'm glad you're not in public office. People like us are really tired of people like you who think that all joy in life should be stamped out vigorously.

Mary MMM

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

Just an addition...

band, football and art

I never took any of those classes.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Hon, in California, we had a little thing called Prop 13 that cleared the legislature in 1978 that removed most of the funding for education, and we've seen amazing feats of fiscal upfuckery ever since, including a lottery that didn't compensate for the losses, amazing amounts of fundraising for basics you and I took for granted...and our schools are now the first place everyone goes when they want to 'reduce spending to balance our budgets.'

There hasn't been band, football or art for as long as the parent in the story has been alive. Longer. Believe it.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[kuangning]

I think if you replace band, football, and art with parenting classes, you take away some of the few avenues that many kids have to get out of their abusive homes and into better, productive lives away from their hometowns and families of origin. More than that, you take away the hope that it'll happen. What do they have left then but the only thing you fitted them for, which is having babies and parenting?

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[kshandra]

What makes you think there's a school left in CA that still has music and art classes? I see our host has beaten me to this particular punch already.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I was editor of my high school newspaper the year I graduated high school - 1978. It was the last front page story we did in June.

And the bitch passed in November, regardless.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[christophine.livejournal.com]

I think schools should replace band, football and art with mandatory child rearing classes.

So, someone like me who knew that she wanted a career in art from the time she could pick up a pencil should not get the early training I got through school art programs? Someone like me who knew from a very young age that she did not ever want children and has still, some 35 years since that choice, not changed her mind on that, should have been forced to take classes that would not actually prepare her for the life she has chosen instead?

A writer friend once said that the creative mind is like a shark - it must keep moving, or it dies. A hand injury took away my ability to express the creative need in the way that I knew for close to twenty years. That side might not have died, but the deep anguish of having that intense need to create and being unable to sure felt like it was dying a slow, painful death. I tried other means of expressing the creative need, but they did not feed whatever it is that artwork fed. I lived one of those lives of quiet desperation, with large doses of depression and rage beneath the day-to-day surface stuff. It was a frigging miserable existence. But on your plan, we should condemn all those like me, or with similar needs in music or sports, to exactly that. Brilliant! How much better life would be without all that useless stuff cluttering up life! How much better that is, than, say, teaching this stuff in a revamped Home Economics course! After all, we all should be spending our time learning how to sew a decorative throw pillow and make a doll from a pair of old pantyhose like we spent an entire school year doing in the Home Ec course it was mandatory for my classmates and me to take, rather than learning things that might actually apply to running a household! Why, oh why, is our education not entirely designed by someone with ideas exactly like yours!

*spits*

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

My home ec class was cinnamon toast. No, I kid you not.

The acting classes gave me poise and a work ethic that has never failed me. (The more you can do, the more you WILL do....) My journalism instructor taught me to have a curious mind that has served me exceptionally well.

I took sewing in high school. Easy A. I taught the teacher stuff. You're not supposed to do that.

But I got through the whole experience without the ability to do more than simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division because - I was a pretty little blond thing and who really wanted to *distress* me over it?

To this day I can't do square roots, basic geometry...name it. Do I miss it?

Only the increased ability to earn a better living, maybe.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[christophine.livejournal.com]

What you say about acting class and journalism has some resonance for me. Acting is often, like art and music and sports (a bit less so with journalism), considered to be frivolous and not "real" work. Yet all those things, even if they don't become your chosen profession, have things to teach that are useful in life-after-school.

Art, aside from actually producing pieces of art, has taught me some creative thinking, forming a plan of action, conceptualization, and problem solving skills. Particularly staring in my junior year in high school, when my teacher would present us with, "You have a client. This is what your client's company does. This is what your client would like people to feel about the company/product. You get to design the corporate branding, following the rules of logo design, letterhead design, and basic design. Logos must look good and be readable at any scale, from business cards to billboards. You will be building the visual identity for this company, starting now." It also began teaching me critical thinking skills, since we had to critique the work of other students. We weren't allowed to just say, "Oh, that looks so cool!" and move on. We had to talk about what we thought worked and why, what didn't and why, make suggestions for tweaks that might improve the work, or even suggest entirely new directions that might be more effective. Analyzing problem x and coming up with possible solutions a, b, and c is a very useful skill in life, as you know. There is so much more to art, or any of the "frivolous" subjects, than just producing a pretty picture, nice song, well-turned skit, or getting a ball from point a to point b.

As for maths, I got decently far in those in school too. Algebra one and two, geometry, trig. I was one of those annoying honors students that was taking advanced everything. Math's not my strong suit. I generally got by on C grades in that. And some of it is because of my choices in life and career, but honestly, there is little to nothing that I use the specific skills from those classes for. I probably don't even remember 9/10ths of it all anymore. So I'm not sure how much more useful those are in real life than the so-called frivolous subjects. Because what has stood me in good stead from those classes has been skills like analysis, problem-solving, and logical thinking rather than how to solve a quadratic equation.

Which, now that I think about it, makes me call into question the usefulness of having any major child-rearing class in high school at all. Sure, teach some of the basic skills. But how much would someone remember if they were like my mom, who was a month shy of 30 when I was born? Maybe the better plan would be child rearing courses for both parents during pregnancy, so the knowledge is fresh.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[moropus.livejournal.com]

OK, I'm a long way from California and no idea what goes on in school out there and I have heard the govenator had really destroyed the place, must be worse than I thought.

I expect boys to be taught how to rear children also. I don't expect them to learn by magic.

As early as a child is able to learn to add and subtract, you could also mention budgets and checks a little at a time. Build as you go. Because if somebody doesn't teach them some life skills, sooner or later they are going to be learning, Do you want fries with that?

How about that birth control?

My school didn't have home ec at all. It was the 70s. Somebody said it was degrading and out it went.

But the money spent on silly stuff in school out here in the east would pay for a whole lot of training in actual life skills.

if the parents won't or can't teach them, maybe the state has to teach them enough to keep them off welfare.

Re: Who taught her to be a mom? Where's the dad?

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

Football, band and art are generally extracurricular activities in many schools these days. Sex ed is optional, and what you get taught is an 'abstinence only' lesson plan. Forget personal health and hygiene, since that's not taught in schools either.

Further, there are plenty of people who don't have kids until much later in life. I doubt these people would remember such a class in high school, but many hospitals require all mothers (but not fathers for whatever reason) to take a child care class if they give birth at their facilities.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

My mother worked for DCFS for 34 years. I still remember the story she told about the 18-year-old who had a few kids, who Mom battled with the state about, at the state level, about getting the girl sterilized - and the state wouldn't do it, nor help with any semi-permanent birth control procedures. They just kept taking more kids away ... much to Mom's chagrin and extreme pissiness.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

There was a day when that was the way expectations ran.

Today? You get their attention - and keep it - they'll remove children as soon as they're born, from the hospital. Just, getting their attention is tough. And they can convince people with some very stiff incentives (this is one of the things you MUST do to keep getting support) to comply with contraception plans.

[reannon.livejournal.com]

It probably means they don't know. The story is very bare-bones, and it's a single-source story - just that one detective. Day-one stories frequently have holes like this in them, particularly on the net - if I'd been on the case, I'd have asked if anyone else was in the house, and if the cop said, "You know, I don't know. I'll have to ask the investigating detective and get back to you," I'd leave it vague until we know better.

Or he might wave me off it, because they're preparing a second indictment. But that's less likely. A spokescop frequently is just reading what someone else gave him to release and may not have all the info I need. Also likely: there may or may not have been someone else in the house, and the mother is lying to them about it, so they're still investigating.

Or the reporter is new/lazy/stupid. But it's the L.A. Times, so that's rather unlikely.

P.S. I would replace mandatory child-rearing classes with holy-fuck MANDATORY BIRTH CONTROL TRAINING. I would lay odds that most of these three-kids-by-age-20 mothers were in schools where they never bothered to tell them that they had the right to say no, much less how to use a damn condom.

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

re: Mandatory birth control training...

"OMG OMG, that would encourage our chilluns to HAVE SEX! we can't be having that!"

I don't think that way, but there are A LOT of parents that do... parents, teachers, churches, administrators, politicians...........

sigh.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

At this age? Sex? Don't ask - don't tell. SHHH. (And I seriously doubt she finished high school.)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

And, um. I'm already teaching my kid about sex and he's four.

[notlefthanded.livejournal.com]

In my public high school in Colorado in the early '90s, all students attended mandatory health classes. We were taught symptoms of STDs, how they could and couldn't be transmitted, etc. I don't remember discussing the pill, but we were at least taught about condoms for disease prevention and that the rhythm method was unreliable.

My best friend's mother pulled her out of high school and all four siblings were home-schooled thereafter.

Incidentally, there was also a child development class available. We learned the hierarchy of needs, etc., but also had to pair off and parent sacks of flour for a week.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

See, the whole idea of home-schooling wasn't even considered when I was of age. It was understood that people needed specific education to be ready to teach children - and if you didn't have it, you were not as good as someone who did.

Then it was decided that all that money was wasted on education and nobody was learning much of anything useful anyway.

Slowly, but surely - people figured out that they WERE better off keeping their kids home. They even spent more per student that way, ironically. And if you didn't want your kids to be asking you hard questions about the rest of the world? Well, that's one way to put an end to it.

Another Coloradan?

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

I'm sort of in the same boat as you. Do you mind if I asked where you went to school? I was a DPS kid. Our health classes weren't mandatory, but I remember seeing peers with sacks of flour in the halls.

Re: Another Coloradan?

[notlefthanded.livejournal.com]

Oh hi! I haven't lived in Colorado for many years now, but lived in the Littleton school district throughout K-12. (Um, not Columbine.)

Now that you mention it, I guess I assumed the health classes were mandatory, but maybe people could opt out with parental permission.

The flour-sack kids made an impression, not that I was in any danger of conceiving at any point in high school. I remember the other teachers being less than amused by the distraction, though.

[ginamariewade.livejournal.com]

You know, a lot of people complain about the CPS law in Georgia that says a CPS report on a child under 1, no matter how old the parent is, must be investigated with a worker eyeballing the child within 24 hours. With a child under 5, the CPS worker must eyeball the child within 5 days. I'm pretty sure that opening a case is mandatory for a child that young.

CPS is overworked, just as everywhere, and the general public always assumes that *other* peoples' children deserve to be taken into foster care, never their own. So people complain that the law is too strict and too invasive.
It was passed after there were a few high profile cases of child deaths.

I don't know how things go in California. There are a lot more people, and true or not, the perception is that the communities there are not as stable and families are a lot more isolated.

I don't think the issue here is that the young woman was 19 and had 3 kids. Women that age have been having children since the dawn of time.
The issue, like it is with most abusing and neglecting families, is stress, isolation, and lack of support.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Here's the local DCFS justifying their opposition to the latest round of budget cuts:

http://www.childrendutyfuture.org/Issue_Papers/LA_County.pdf

I'm finding this rather - concerning. An adoptive parent gets slammed for being abusive. A parent who simply has children - but is displaying the same struggles to parent - is related to garbage status for simply having children at all.