An interesting contrast -

[kyburg]

So that game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas finally got rated 'adults only.' What a shocker.

There are some things even I feel are so offensive, I won't allow them in the house. This game is one of them. Oh quit looking at me like that. That decision was made a LONG time ago. Extremely violent games are strictly rationed in my house. No, we don't have DOOM. Quit staring.

What hacks me off is that it was the sex that pushed the rating over the edge. WTF?

But so American it hurts. Violence is good; sex is bad. *facepalms*

Here. Let me show you something.



The difference is visible not just in the size of a soldier's county of origin, but also in its location. Counties disconnected from urban areas tend to have higher death rates, regardless of population size. Small rural counties have a death rate nearly twice that of counties that have the same population but happen to be part of metropolitan areas.

The blogger also mentions "Part of me wants to wash my hands of it all. If they want this president and his endless war and his tax-cuts for millionaires, I think, then they get to live with the consequences. But I know that America deserves better."

Yeah, they remember the "fly over" states. They're a good source of cannon fodder.

I hate this so much it hurts. It's not a Republican or Democrat thing - make no bones about it. We're far too in love with violence - it's okay, it's encouraged and gee, where did they GET those guns anyway?

Another piece from my email this morning:

Dr. David Walsh, author of Selling Out America's Children: How America Puts Profits before Values and What Parents Can Do, identifies six key values that dominate mass media. It is hard to argue with his list:

1. Happiness is found in having things.
2. Get all you can for yourself.
3. Get it all as quickly as you can.
4. Win at all costs.
5. Violence is entertaining.
6. Always seek pleasure and avoid boredom.

*harumph* *spit*

So sick of this.

It wouldn't bother me so much if there were some balance to all this. But, no. Walsh goes on to say "...Certainly I do not blame the corporate media entirely for our lemming-ness, but it certainly does not encourage us to question the gods of materialism.

In 1983, 50 corporations controlled the vast majority of all news media in the U.S, according to the Media Reform Information Center. By 1992, fewer than 25 companies owned and operated 90% of the mass media - controlling almost all of America's newspapers, magazines, TV and radio stations, books, records, movies, videos, wire services, and photo agencies. Today, the number of major media players has fallen to six. "

And you know what they want? MORE. So what do you sell? The lowest common denominator.

I just got back from Comic-Con. What did I see? Nearly-naked girls in very little spandex. Zombies. Nearly-naked girls in very little spandex zombies. And lots and lots of candy-coated kaboom. ALL OVER.

But quietly, pervasively, there were so many one-title publishing houses, doing works like Blankets, which has its own soundtrack, thankyouverymuch - and other small press works that one couldn't take them all in. They're the reason I'm going to be broke forever. That's what I want to buy.

There are two guarantee sells, it seems. Sex and violence. And in America, the assumption is that you can put them together and HEY IT'S GOOD.

Not here.

Sick, I tell you. To the core.

So - bitch all you want. But next time, start bitching earlier.

Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was off-limits from the start. For better reasons.

Pissed right now. I'll go read my Kare Kano books and see you later.

Comments

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

My husband bought Doom 3, but played it for approximately 2 minutes before chucking it in the 'never play again' bin. It's not that it's overly violent, and he's one of the least violent people I know. No, it's because the constant violence becomes a blur. It's the same reason we don't have cable. We're not the type to be into sex and violence, but it's marketed so heavily here, because they seem to be afraid that we wouldn't react to thought provoking stuff. Why else is there a show like, "Fear Factor?"

That said, I've run out of Kare Kano manga, and am sad. What do you think of the 'Arima arc,' as Tsuda-san calls it? Just curious.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Haven't gotten to it yet - you ought to see the backlog I'm dealing with right now....

[murphymom.livejournal.com]

I came home today to a phone message that my brother's 19-year-old son was shot and killed Tuesday - not in a war zone, but in Washington state. I am still in shock - but, yes, the "American way"...

[studiogaijin.livejournal.com]

...I'm confused...are you one of those mythical "parent" things I've heard stories about? Some people say that if they existed they could take the place of television and teach things to kids while simultaneously keeping them out of trouble, and they could even decide whether or not kids should be playing certain games!

Personally I haven't seen enough evidence of their existence yet, so I'm not really inclined to believe you. If you're telling the truth though, good luck and I'm glad you're putting some effort into it. ;)

[makeitepic.livejournal.com]

One of my college profs was right - he said he'd rather have his kids watch a man and a woman make love than to watch people blowing each other's heads off with guns and stuff.

[natsumi.livejournal.com]

Sex and violence have been at the core of entertainment forever. There are different degrees of it, but it's there. All of the fantasy stories I love so much have violence necessary to their plots. The Big Evil Enemy isn't evil unless he or she does bad things, which always involves violence. The fantasy novels I love all have it. Tolkien has war with very black and white sides, George R. R. Martin greys the boundaries, and even Rowling includes death and violence in her books. Stories require conflict, and the two biggest sources of conflict are violence and sex. Do you think the Harry Potter books would be successful if Harry went to a magic school where everyone liked everyone else and the biggest worry was oversleeping for class? Of course not. Voldemort is the reason for the story.
Now I'm not saying Grand Theft Auto is appropriate for children. The degree of violence is a little high. But I don't think it should be censored or pulled off the shelves. That's the parents' job, not the governments. Let adults decide how much violence they want in their stories. But claiming the game contributes to the culture of violence is backwards, the game is the result of a culture of violence that's been around forever. Read the mythologies of any culture, and there is violence in spades. And sex. Hell, all of these christian groups screaming for censorship should REALLY read the Bible some time.
I personally think that trying to shield children from everything is just as bad as bombarding them with everything. They should know about sex. They should understand the realities of war. And a good story, where good goes up against evil, regardless of how violent, helps them to define their values.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

The parental anecdotes that filter back to me about this game range from aghast to irate - my favorite, so far, is the one where the parent removed the game from the house after she caught her pre-teen sons playing the game "and she lost it when she noticed the kids (characters) were sitting on the roof in flack jackets shooting people as they went by and stole their money."

"That's how you win, MAOOOOM." ~*whine*~

Game was frisbeed so far, so fast....

Mom had thought it was age-appropriate. Hell, it had been labeled that way.

One of the things about violence in media is that too much of it has a numbing effect on the psyche, and anyone who has had to be treated for abuse or PTSD will second that.

Motivating force, yes. Central focus and sole purpose? No.

[natsumi.livejournal.com]

I won't argue with the numbing effect on the psyche, I don't know enough about it, but I have to argue about the label. It was labeled Mature when it was released. How could she have thought it was age appropriate for pre-teens? The ratings system was implimented voluntarily by the video game industry. As of yet there is no law that says the games must be labeled. So I think the parents need to meet them halfway and take the five minutes to read what the ratings mean.

But again, my point was that those adults who want to play the game should be able to decide for themselves how much violence they can handle. And sex for that matter.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Oh you know those ratings people - they're ALWAYS over-reacting....

I don't get it. Children live with you when you have them, right?

Me, I think it would be hard to get a game in here without me playing it - and anything with a possible content issue? I'd play it first.

My question in turn, though - why would this game be appealing? What's the attraction?

[natsumi.livejournal.com]

I have a friend who is the sweetest person in the world, and she loves it. There is some appeal to doing all the bad things that you're not supposed to; it's a release from being a responsible human being all the time with no consequences. I don't like it personally, but not because it's violent. I'm not big on action games, especially if they don't have a defined story. The story in the GTA games is very nonlinear, so you can do whatever you want to do. I like story and strategy, so the games I get obsessive with are RPG's and Pikmin. But I respect other people's rights to play. My husband has GTA3, and he enjoyed it alot. It didn't make him any more violent, in fact, Eli's one of the least violent people I know. I'm more violent than him, he doesn't even yell when people cut him off in the car.
Different people are entertained by different things. Someone could try to explain to me why Friends and Seinfeld stayed on Tv for season after season while Firefly got cancelled after a handful of episodes. I don't want to deny anyone the chance to watch Friends, but I wish my favorites were on too. So when Eli wants to play gangster, good for him, although I make him turn the sound down, because he likes to steal cop cars, and the sirens drive me crazy after 10 minutes.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

There are a slew of studies done on behavior that are worth looking into - and some of them deal with "unacceptable" behaviors in a safe environment. There are also some better studies done where you get a glimpse of just how unacceptable your own behavior can get, when properly motivated. It gets scary, quick.

Doing things you know you shouldn't do - and getting release, pleasure or enjoyment out of them - is dangerous. It makes it appealing. For no other reason -

Hey, you find cautions against this in every belief system, every set of granny stories you'd care to name - the easiest one for me to remember is the old Cherokee parable:

An old Cherokee was teaching his grandson about life. "A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too."

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."

I strongly believe that people need to be taught this - and reminded of it, in our culture. There's just too much emphasis put on pushing people out of your way to get to where you're going - yanno?

Agreed

[turandot.livejournal.com]

The way M games are sold is not, insofar as I know, much different than R-rated tickets at the movies are sold. That is to say, a child under 17 will be turned away if s/he tries to buy something with that rating. They would therefore need to go back to a store with a parent in tow agreeing to purchase of the game.

Which means that the parents didn't bother reading the ratings, or say, asking a clerk "why exactly does my son/daughter need me to be present before you will sell him/her the game?", at which point the clerk will likely explain to them what an M rating means. But obviously some parents never bother to ask the question, or read the fine line under the symbol on the right hand corner of the back of a box, which takes all of two minutes of their time.

I might be unkind about it, but I have little sympathy for parents who didn't even bother to do that.

[riverheart.livejournal.com]

Bob used to play Doom, Quake, and a couple of other similar games. I never have. I still have the CDs, though, as I don't know what else to do with them, but they're not the sort of thing that either charlesks and I would ever load, let alone play.

charlesks had a laser disc of something absolutely horrible called, in English, Legend of the Overfiend or something like that. I have never seen it, do not ever intend to see it, and actually squick at hearing about what it contains. I said he HAD it. I forbade him to bring it here when he moved in, and he says he didn't. I believe him. I said it wasn't coming into the house. He says he respected that limit and didn't bring it over here.

Nothing else has ever evoked that level of reaction from me. I am not one inclined to censorship, especially over the tastes of another adult, but that hit my limit.

[lysana.livejournal.com]

The only reason to see Urotsukidoji (Legend of the Overfiend) is to know why you never want to touch that genre of anime again. Takes, at most, five minutes. Or so it did for me. I went in mostly uninformed. Ah-heh.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Mmmmm. Tentacles.

*ducks*

[riverheart.livejournal.com]

If you want it, he might be able to fetch it.

If you *don't* want it, it's not coming into this house.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

No want it. Know allll about it, and you're just fine not knowing.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

It's a rarity to see--a parent willing to be the adult. Most parents now are still obsessed with being children--letting kids do what they will and the parents too self conscious to say no, as it may make them seem uncool or a hypocrite. Be a hypocryte! Okay you did drugs as a child, doesn't mean you have to let your kid do them just to have integrity. Parenting is sacrifice, and if more folks understood the massive responsibility of having kids, the less trouble we would have in general. Although likely, if most folks understood the responsibility, we'd likely have less kids too.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I don't believe this is something that should only exist in a mentoring environment - the fact that so many are finding this "parenting" behavior amuses me, frankly.

I have no problem walking up to anyone and confronting them on behavior choices. Frankly, it's the adults playing these games that worry me the most.

But then again, I was parented by someone who played games with me - read the same books I did - and watched television, went to movies and had favorites just like me. Discussed current events. Shoot, we still do.

*heh* She's an old-school Republican, too. Used to listen to Dio and Black Sabbath because Cliff liked it, and she wanted to understand the attraction.

Children are not the only ones affected by game use of this kind - adults may be the gatekeepers, but they also need to know the effects of this kind of stuff on their own emotional/mental/psycho-social health. And be reminded of why, or frankly, educated, if they don't know.

And all the angry resistance? Beware of smoke from other fires.

[roseross.livejournal.com]

Good for you. I worked in that industry and know exactly what the thinking is behind the design - profit. If you want to make a decision about whether immersive, violent entertainment is good for you or your children, you're going to have to make it for yourself.

Such a relief to read this post. It's so popular to treat violent games as though they are popcorn. They are not, nor are they something I would ever put in the hands of a child.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

It's NOT normal.
It's NOT harmless.

And you just have to be aware of that.

Also, ignorance of it is no solution, either.

[yasha-chan.livejournal.com]

What really burns me bum about San Andreas is that, iirc, it was always rated "Mature" (although not NC17). Here is the description for "Mature" games from the ESRB website...

MATURE
Titles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language

Yet people have been rasing up this hue and cry all like "SAVE OUR CHILDREN! OMGS ONOES!" But... that description of "Mature" clearly states "for persons ages 17 and older". Which means... if any child under that age had that game their parents weren't doing their job.

Watch what kids play. Actually pay attention to kids, TV and movies and video games can't raise your kids for you. School won't give your kids a set of morales or really much of anything... you can't rely on the government or others in general to take care of your own kid.

It's really really really disgusting how some parents just don't care. San Andreas was popular, so a bunch of parents bought it for precious little Timmy despite the fact that it clearly states that the game is not intended for children. Just because it was cool. Whose fault is that? The video game company for making the game? But the video game audience, in majority, is persons OLDER than 18. Like animation, it's not a children only genre.

Just for the record, I thought GTA:SA and all its predecessors were boring. It was just violence and sex, and after 10 minutes it wasn't fun anymore, it was tedious and not very well thought out, and just random. The gratuitious violence was unnecessary and almost out of place... and the games just really aren't that good for all everyone wants to praise them. I don't let myself get subjected to 5 hours of watching my friends play it simply by telling them that I don't want to see it.

But I still blame the parents for not paying attention to their kids. When my cousins come over to play video games, they don't play anything they're not supposed to. We play Mario Kart: Double Dash and Katamari Damacy and Sonic Adventure 2: Battle. It's their mom that lets them play Halo and Unreal Championship and all of that mess... and they're not even 12 yet. It's yet another example of how parents love to find someone else to blame when they're the ones screwing up the whole time.

Pay attention to what your kids watch, what they buy, where they're going, and what they're doing. Don't treat them as a damn nusience that you need video games and TV to placate. You had them, you raise them... electronics and the gaming and movie industry shouldn't be doing this for you. And when you start getting the government into this, it becomes even more ridiculous than it already is. The problem is WAY more close to home than a lot of people want to admit... because it's with them.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Well, now they HAVE to pay attention - sheesh. Same old story. You want privileges, you have to earn them. Abuse them, and they get taken away.

Watch for more games to either get sanitized or locked up behind the ADULT label.

Dumbasses.

[yasha-chan.livejournal.com]

I don't think some parents could pay attention if the games had a giant, singing neon sign that bellowed "HEYYYY I'M NOT FOR KIDS!" over and over to the tune of "Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes".

It's dismaying that people want a governmental, nation-wide answer to what is essentially a personal problem. You can't legislate morality!

But I don't necessarily mind seeing games like San Andreas behind the adult label. I don't think games with such a high degree of violence should be in the hands of children... and it'll only inspire more adults to buy the game because it's "taboo".