Oh, and for my Catholic friends.

[kyburg]

Read and feel pity.

In the written pages posted on http://www.tmz.com , the arresting deputy — identified as James Mee — wrote that after cooperating at first, Gibson became "increasingly belligerent as he took stock of his predicament."

The deputy said he told Gibson "that if he remained cooperative, I would transport him without handcuffing."

Instead, he said, Gibson tried to flee back to his car. After he was subdued and handcuffed, the actor told the deputy: "You're going to regret you ever did this to me."

Gibson, the report continued, then said he "owned Malibu" and launched a "barrage of anti-Semitic remarks."

Those remarks included Gibson's statement that "the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world," the report said. After that, Gibson allegedly asked the deputy: "Are you a Jew?"

..

BTW.

He was really really REALLY sorry in the morning.

*facesmacks*

Oh yeah. He has how many children at home?

That said, let me say that I've had some dealings with the man - stop laughing, I was working at Avis Rent A Car, and he was in town shooting the first Lethal Weapon movie...and yeah, we rented him his wheels.

Stand up guy. Completely honest, easy to deal with - stand up guy. He looked after his family (to a degree it was noticeablely out of step with our "make HER do it" shuttle drivers ideas of child rearing), made no bones about the superficiality of Hollywood and really just wanted to go home. We liked him. A lot.

Gibson issued a statement Saturday apologizing for his "despicable" behavior.

"I acted like a person completely out of control when I was arrested," the statement reads, "and said things that I do not believe to be true and which are despicable. I am deeply ashamed of everything I said."

Gibson said he has battled alcoholism as an adult, adding, "I … profoundly regret my horrific relapse. I apologize for any behavior unbecoming of me in my inebriated state and have already taken necessary steps to ensure my return to health."

This is the guy we dealt with. (It also points up what a really good case of addiction destroys. Think anyone is going to forget this?)

Because, in all honesty? He only blew a .12. (For those of you DMV-challenged, the legal limit is .08, .01 if you're under 21.)

This is one seriously angry man, very thinly hidden. No, I didn't see his Jesus flick - I did hear all about the anti-Semitic flack. If I want a Jesus flick, I've got a copy of Godspell. That's plenty for me.

Sad. Very, very sad.

I have to reiterate. You don't blame a group for anything. You do that, you're setting yourself up to be used. Badly.

Better to blame the guy who done it. Usually, it's just a guy - or a buncha guys. Not all guys. I don't care what label you want to slap on 'em.

Relapse. Holy fuck.

Comments

[betnoir.livejournal.com]

He also allegedly responded to a female officer with the ever-so-charming "What are you looking at, Sugartits?"

Yeah. Real stand-up guy.

I'd like to see him have lunch in My Town ever again...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I think I'd glare at him if he asked. Not too much more.

Ghad. Some people just don't age well, do they?

[dracowayfarer.livejournal.com]

That icon is awesome. I actually lol'd.

[elfwench.livejournal.com]

I fear "relapse" is the tip of the iceburg. But even so, he seems such a strong individual, so I wonder what else is going on in his life to bring this on?

So sad. :(

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

God, he's only 50. Proof-positive you can have it all - and still be in sauce above your head at the end of the day.

[lesliepear.livejournal.com]

CNN just sent me an e-mail update that he's going into rehab.

Hmmmm....

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

SAVE ME SAVE ME SAVE ME

..

Oh wait.

[yeoww.livejournal.com]

Now he'll either write a book or open his own clinic.

Goes to show - no matter whatcha got, it doesn't guarantee contentment and certainly not sobriety.

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

A few years back, maybe more than a decade, I had a friend who was visiting relatives in a small California valley town near where Gibson was filming part of a movie, and was staying for about a week. She said that he came into the local bar fairly frequently and was just horrible, either mean to or pushily flirty with the staff, yelling, demanding attention (but not like star attention, just drunk attention) and that he generally left the town saying, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out" when that small bit of filming was finished.

She said it conflicted so much with everything she'd heard about him that she could only assume he was just a mean drunk.

That said, I wonder about folks who are really mean drunks but nice when sober in the same way that I wonder about folks who are mean online "but really nice in real life, when you get to know them," as they're sometimes defended. Which one's not real, then? Which one is the veneer?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

You're dealing with a Hollywood actor. Frankly, this is very very bad for him, any way you cut it.

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

Traditionalist Catholic, is he? Hmmm. I would have hoped for more love in the heart of a guy that donates money to traditionalist "we only do the Mass in Latin, dammit" churches. Then again, those "independent" traditionalist chapels make me think he's not a Roman Catholic and that those chapels he donated to are not recognized by Rome. His criticism of Vatican II also makes makes me think this.

For the record, I go to probably the most conservative Roman Catholic church in the entire Bay Area which offers a Latin mass every Saturday but not always the full Tritendine Mass. (It's interesting to hear Latin in an Irish accent XD The Latino priests have a much easier time of it than the Irish priest at my parish does.) XD The full High Mass is gorgeous -- even my agnostic husband loved it until the homily where the priest was UBER CONSERVATIVE OMFG (but what else would you expect?)

[mactavish.livejournal.com]

*nod* Gibson and his father identify (or identified, is his father still alive?) with one of the several branches of Catholicism that either don't recognize Rome at all, or don't recognize changes within the past few decades. But Rome doesn't recognize them either. ;)

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Based upon what I've read, his dad is a sedvecantist and a Holocaust denier.

And based upon this report, Mr. Gibson is a drunkard and an anti-semite.

Catholic or not, anyone who espouses anti-Semitism gets the back of my hand. I liked the Passion of the Christ, and I still don't think there was anything anti-semitic in it, but if this story is accurate -- and I believe it to be -- then Mr. Gibson is off my (extremely short) list of People In Show Biz that I Admire and on my Scheiße List.

I feel sorry for him. He's obviously a deeplu unhappy man. However, unhappiness is no excuse for bigotry and drunkenness. RX for Mel: lay off the sauce and spend less time on set, more time on knees in front of Sacrament.

I detest Jew-haters.

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

Gaah, I like him less and less as the years go by....

[http://users.livejournal.com/little_e_/]

I was a huge Gibson fan back when I was a little kid. (My parents cut all of the 'bad' parts out of the movies, heh.)

Then I grew up, and realized that life in mideaval Scotland sucked ass whether England was in charge or Scotland was in charge, and that it certainly wasn't worth dying over. And then I realized that the English were pretty decent people on the scale of people, and that trying to moralize your way through any political conflict was a stupid idea.

At which point I decided the man's politics were decidedly distatefull.

And felt a little betrayed, but only in a silly way.

[foogod.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I'm not sure he's actually angry at all.

I've tried to ignore most of the recent hoopla over Gibson, so I'm not as up on this as some people, but everything that I have heard, well, to be honest, doesn't feel quite right. Somehow it doesn't quite add up as simply as everybody characterizes it.

I really wonder whether there might not be some undiagnosed psychological issues under the surface there that nobody actually knows. It's just a gut feeling, but I think he may be a good man who's had some bad stuff inside creeping up on him for a long time, and he may not even know himself what's really wrong. The alcoholism may be only a symptom. The anger and the insults may actually be a symptom as well, an attempt to push people away as the disease gets stronger, and if so it's quite possible he really doesn't believe any of the things he says at moments like that, and really is horrified by them afterwards.

I may be wrong, but my gut feelings are usually pretty good. And this sort of feeling worries me, because it usually means things will get worse before they get better, and that sort of problem usually happens most often to the good people who don't actually deserve it anyway.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Gotta question for you.

Have you ever known anyone to passively HATE anything, without holding something of a grudge or being angry as well?

And, yes - addiction is a sucky, SUCKY disease. It destroys everything in its path, no holds barred.

[foogod.livejournal.com]

No, but my point is are you sure it's actual hate you're seeing, or is it just the appearance of hate created subconsciously to generate a reaction?

And yes, addiction is a nasty disease that can cause a lot of damage, but that doesn't mean sometimes it can't be a symptom of something deeper too. If it's a symptom of another problem, then fighting the addiction and staying clean may be a stopgap solution, but probably won't be enough by itself.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

In a good clinic, with good support, the main point is to deal with the deeper problem, or at least point out it's existance. Simply drying our generally means you're back as soon as another party kicks up.
But you are right though--a lot of "clinics" do little but let a person dry out for a few weeks, and send him on his way after a big group hug.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

*nods* I've never seen addiction without other issues present. However, I have seen it arrive, and bring all the other crap with it after the fact.

Sis used to work for the county as a social worker dealing with dual-diagnosed women, after the county had taken their children away. Dual-diagnosed as addicted to something, and also mentally ill, bona fide schitzo, etc. She now works in hospice, and it's less stress.

You stay clean by working your program - and the best ones out there are based in group support (and accountability) for life.

Gibson's going to need a whole new circle of friends to pull this one off, methinks.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

...or maybe he's just a sexist anti-semetic ass.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

Could be, but as we see in society, sexist anti semitic asses don't just happen. He learned it somewhere. Carrying hate like that towards anybobody is a symptom of at least a screwed up childhood. I mean, if he was cool with being a sexist anti semetic ass, why would he also be a drunk? Seems from what I have read, he's pretty torn up inside, and dealt with it in a very traditional (albeit unhealthy) male way--he drinks.

But yeah, to your credit, he could just be a prick.

But another VERY relevant point--read up on all the old "classic" stars of yesteryear--many of these gods of cinema were nazi sympathisers, war profiteers, wife abusers heroin addicts, pedophiles etc. It was just the mainstream media didn't have such a great time tearing them down.

This is just the same old routine they've been doing for a bunch of years now--tear a guy down and rip at him until he cracks, then feed on the gore of his life falling apart, and then we all get to feel like decent people as we herald his clean and sober comeback interview with Barbara Walters. It's just an industry, and it's his turn.

Im still going to see Apocalypto.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

I try to hold to this--

He makes pretty daring films, and he's a pretty likeable actor. It won't make me stop seeing his flicks, and I'm REALLY looking forward to Apocalypto.

A lot of alchoholics actually have an allergy to the stuff--it brings on the mood and personality changes.
But aside, I figure since we don't know the man, we may as well take him at his word. He got drunk and made an ass of himself. Let's be honest, he hardly invented the concept. I've drunk more than my share from time to time, and did some stuff I am not proud of. Did a couple things that were pretty damn funny too, but nobody remembers that.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I've been drunk - even to the point of vomiting a couple times. Never have I spouted sexist, racist, or otherwise group-demeaning statements.

You don't say them unless you're thinking them.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

And soon, nobody remembers you were drunk when you said them either.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I don't tend to think that being drunk is much of an excuse for anything. Because it's not like someone held you down and poured alcohol down your throat.

But being drunk particularly doesn't excuse this kind of statement. Being drunk could excuse flashing a crowd or making out with someone who was a bad choice. But spouting hate speech? I can honestly say that I've been as drunk as it is possible for me to be without passing out, and I've never felt the slightest inclination to say something racist or sexist or otherwise hateful against a group.

Being drunk lowers inhibitions, basically making it easier to do what you want to do. It follows, then, that what Mel wants to do is demean women and say hateful things about Jews. A person who wants to do those things is a jerk. It is normal to want to make out with people or dance around in a stupid way or whatever. It's not normal to want to recite the protocols of the elders of zion.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh sure, I agree. I have just met enough folks who change and I mean CHANGE when drinking. And one of the sad elements of life is some things we think or say to ourselves we would never share with the outside world.

Luckilly, I wasn't raised by a Holocaust revisionist, so I have some pretty boring stuff I rant about when "into my cups". Usually I just tell jokes and flirt a lot

But like I said, the guy is a good filmmaker, and I figure I'm not going to skip his movies just because he'd make poor dinner company.Most actors go into acting out of insecurity anyways, (I mean the whole job is pretending to be somebody else!)so take an insecure person, male or female, and throw a big pile of money at them, I can imagine it would cause a lot more trouble than it would solve.

Hope he sorts it out.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

There's an old piece of advice that you should never marry a man until after you've seen him drunk. OK, we've seen him drunk, let's throw him back.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

LOL. Though I didn't have to wait this long to realize I'd throw him back.

[foomf.livejournal.com]

Because, in all honesty? He only blew a .12. (For those of you DMV-challenged, the legal limit is .08, .01 if you're under 21.)

I'm not sure I understand your reaction here. Are you being sarcastic?
.12 percent is nearly twice as much blood-alcohol as .08 percent, and is well outside the margin of error for breathalyzers (which are typically off, and on average by as much as +/- .05 percent.)

When someone is drunk, it usually means they're likelier to say something stupid that they feel, while when they're sober, the intellect is likelier to kick in and say "That's nonsense" and stop them from saying it.

And drunk drivers often say stupid, belligerent things to the cops who are arresting them for being drunk.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

the legal limit is .08,

It's even higher some places - till recently it was .1 around here.


When someone is drunk, it usually means they're likelier to say something stupid that they feel,

yes. Which to me means that he was being more honest then than he is now, with his "apology."

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Hon, you ought to see what comes into the ER after a traffic accident.

.12 is nothing. You'd be amazed that they could even find the car, the ignition or the road...and they were behind the wheel, and had driven for years in that state before they hit something/someone.

Sad. Sad all around.

[foomf.livejournal.com]

People who come in whose alcohol-stream level is contaminated with blood are not the ones I want to see setting the norm for the rest of us. :)

Since studies have shown that impairment of reflexes, decision making, and attention is measurable in the vast majority at .04 percent blood alcohol, I have NO trouble with setting 'too drunk to drive' at .08 percent.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

There was always something really fishy and dirty about him... it is clear that his "nice-guy" act is only an act.

Anyone who would demean women and spout the Protocols of the Elders of Zion whenever their inhibitions are lowered a bit - NOT TO MENTION endangering innocent people by driving drunk - is a complete and utter asshole. I doubt there's a person on this thread who hasn't been drunk, and I doubt any of us have said/done crap like this.

This guy made $210 million in one year. Couldn't he afford a frikkin taxi? But no - he's got to drive. And you know if he had killed a family he'd have gotten probation, and would have given a similar empty apology, and would never have thought about it again. If it was a family of Jews he killed, he'd probably be secretly glad, since Jews apparently are mean cops who pull him over for drunk driving and also start all the wars.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Actually, he was never fishy or dirty...but he was arrogant, and obviously thought what applied to you and I, didn't apply to him.

It's behavior common to anyone who reduces human beings to labels. It's a bad habit, and hard to resist in today's CW.

At this point, it's a feeding frenzy - and boy, does he deserve it.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

Actually, he was never fishy or dirty...but he was arrogant, and obviously thought what applied to you and I, didn't apply to him.

Difference in syntax - to me, that is fishy and dirty :) Well, really to me it's more like he tries to project a non-arrogant front but is in fact arrogant, which strikes me as fishy and dirty.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

Being a drunk driver happens in increments. Right now, if I have had a drink at all, I do not drive. Simple. Drunk drivers start with the idea "I only had one, I'm fine" then two then three, then they try to stick to the backroads, and like Kyburg says, they drive home night after night inreasing the amount in their systems every time until they get caught or kill somebody.

All he is is a drunk driver. His opinions are that--his opinions. He has a right to them, offensive as they are. His crime wasn't slagging the Jews, it was drinking and driving. I hope rehab does some good for him. Obviously some things going on there.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I'm not suggesting he be locked up for having "opinions" (even sexist and anti-semetic "opinions"). I'm saying that having those opinions means he is an asshole. Him trying to cover up his assholeness before/after this incident just means he is also fishy and dirty.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

The idea of "alcohol induced psychosis" isn't a made up pop psychology term to excuse boorish behavior, its a real thing. I envy you the blessing that you have never seen it. But it's real, and i've seen it--really nice guys who get angry mean drunk, spout hateful shitty things and generally have to be held down til they sober up--it happens. Luckilly, one of the guys I knew who was like that gave up drinking pretty soon after. One of the other guys is homeless and crazy.

But I have heard the opinion that booze makes you honest. I agree with it most of the time, for most people. And of course, Mel Gibson could just be a belligerent prick like I mentioned, but some people do and I mean DO get fucked up and change when drunk.

And to be honest, we all have a dark side.we just need alittle work to fan the flame--we get to see people go through dark changes on the internet, where all humanity is stripped away and just the id is left dangling and crazed. Picture how much a guy can change on the internet, then picture that guy with all the money in the world and a drinking problem.

.You are disconnected from mainstream society
.You have no fear of reprisals
.you can do anything you want
.your every thought and action is relevant, and important

throw these together,and you have the potential for a very very screwed up person, be it in hollywood or on the internet

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

but some people do and I mean DO get fucked up and change when drunk.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Mel, when drunk, spouts sexist and paranoid anti-semetic garbage. I can't really think that it is possible, but let's just assume. He can't possibly have reached this age without realizing that he becomes a freakish asshole when drunk. Therefore, he should know not to drink anymore. Therefore he is just as much of an asshole.

In law, the classic tort scenario is someone who is prone to seizures and knows it, yet drives unmedicated. They have a seizure and crash into a family, killing/injuring the family. Is the driver innocent, since they crashed as a result of a seizure and not by free will? Of course not - they knew that by driving unmedicated they were a danger to other drivers. Mel should know that he becomes a creep when drunk, and CERTAINLY that he is a danger to other drivers when drunk. Therefore, if he chooses despite this knowledge to drink, he's fully culpable for his actions when drunk.