kyburg | Posting because it's pertinent -

No surprise, except I thought this had already happened years ago.

See, my agency didn't do them - and had not done them for some time, having closed their program. I asked - and the answer at that point was that they did not recommend it.

And in the five years since, I've seen story after heartbreak regarding Russian adoptees that you just don't hear about otherwise, even from adoptees from Romania (most of which I think died of AIDS, but that's off-the-cuff kibbitzing from me). Yes, you see RAD in adoption - dude, every adoption is 'special needs' - don't kid yourself. No matter where your child came from. Every adoptee is going to show attachment issues - they ALL begin with primal loss, and goes from there.

I feel like a broken record on this subject.

What I think will be *most* interesting is what this so-called 'adoption treaty' is going to contain. Second-most interesting is what charges will actually be brought against Hansen, et al, and who will have jurisdiction.

And the beat goes on.

Current Mood: cynical

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From:

eyelid.livejournal.com

Every adoptee is going to show attachment issues - they ALL begin with primal loss, and goes from there.

My brother never did.

It is so weird for me to read your thoughts on adoption, because it's entirely different from my experience, but you seem to think that "horrific trauma" is the only possible outcome.

My brother was adopted at 3 months from Korea and has always been the happiest, most cheerful, well-adjusted person I have ever known. He was (and is) hugely popular, always had tons of friends. He was captain of the football team and all-city. He got married to his high school sweetheart a year or so ago; he and his wife currently live a couple miles away from me in a cute little house with a dog.

There was no "primal loss". There were no "attachment issues." In fact I don't think J has ever had an issue of any kind.

Maybe he's an exception. Maybe he's not. I still feel like you're invalidating his and our experience by refusing to recognize it.

From:

kyburg.livejournal.com

Horrific trauma, not always. Most stories are like his - but often, you will also find at the bottom of the happiest outcomes the notion that they never tell you anything bad about their adoption because they don't want to hurt your feelings.

Matter of fact, some adoptees won't even discuss it unless they know you're an adoptee yourself and would understand being torn that way.

His process is not our process is not their process is not the only process.

For some perspective - you can visit http://sisterheping.wordpress.com/ And that's only one place/one person's experience.

Edited Date: 2010-04-15 10:18 pm (UTC)

From:

eyelid.livejournal.com

Matter of fact, some adoptees won't even discuss it unless they know you're an adoptee yourself and would understand being torn that way.

And others might just not have anything to discuss!

It could be, I suppose, that my brother has deep-seated issues that he just doesn't tell us about. Though from what you're saying he would have acted out or had issues as a child, and he never did.

But I see this as really similar to the "all abortions are traumatic, all women who have abortions are scarred for life" line that pro-lifers push. When I tell them my abortion was not traumatic and I was not scarred, they tell me I'm obviously just repressing/overcompensating/etc.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I don't think my practical, easygoing brother is hiding deep emo trauma. I could be wrong, but it's more likely that you are.

Edited Date: 2010-04-16 02:00 am (UTC)

From:

kyburg.livejournal.com

You know, where the rubber meets the road? If there was something truly worthy of the word pathology - we wouldn't be having this discussion. At all.

Issues relative to adoption are not black and white - like most of human experience. There are things common to all, less things common to some, fewer things common to even less.

What those things are differ from person to person.

I just won't let go of the fact that they DO exist, and when it comes to loss relative to adoption, I WON'T ignore it.

(It's VERY similar to lump all or nothings relative to adoption like they do in the pro-life screeds - I'm glad you noticed. There's definitely a comfort level being protected, if not a point of view trying for validity in spite of cases opposed to it.)

Hon - I've *never* met your brother. What value would my opinion have, and why would it matter if I had one?

From:

eyelid.livejournal.com

Hon - I've *never* met your brother.

No, you haven't. But you're speaking for him. You said "Every adoptee is going to show attachment issues - they ALL begin with primal loss, and goes from there."

What I'm pointing out is that no, this is not a hard-and-fast rule, any more than it's a hard-and-fast rule that all women suffer from having an abortion. I don't think my brother suffered any "primal loss" and I don't recall any attachment issues.

From:

kyburg.livejournal.com

And I am going to - gently, I'm extra-prickly today and I know it - remind you that this is YOUR impression of HIS experience.

I don't know anything about it - only what you're telling me. What he might say, after reassurance that anything 'less than happy' about being adopted is an okay stance? Might surprise you. MIGHT.

And I would never, never, never assume his experience was a rubberstamp for anyone else's.

From:

eyelid.livejournal.com

And I am going to - gently, I'm extra-prickly today and I know it - remind you that this is YOUR impression of HIS experience.

Sure. Which I still have to think is more reliable than YOUR impression of his experience since, as you point out, you don't even know him, while I grew up with him and see him every week.

And I would never, never, never assume his experience was a rubberstamp for anyone else's.

Then why are you assuming that someone else's is a rubberstamp for his?

I don't assume all adoptees have the same experience. I objected because YOU said that YOU knew his experience. You said "all adopted people have XYZ traumatic experience." I am objecting to YOUR rubberstamping.

From:

kyburg.livejournal.com

When you're coming in cold - that's a very useful stance to take. If nothing shows up - terrific. But the vast bulk of the research and reporting does not lead a thinking person to believe that will be the case.

And mind, this is in children - grown adults old enough to process their own issues successfully, something else entirely.

There's entirely too many APs out there who will not acknowledge losses due to adoption - and the results are preventable...and very, very sad. If I can head any of THAT off? Come on.