That's why he's the Boss -

[kyburg]

"The question of whether we were misled into the war in Iraq isn't a liberal or conservative or Republican or Democratic question, it's an American one. Protecting the democracy that we ask our sons and daughters to die for is our responsibility and our trust. Demanding accountability from our leaders is our job as citizens. It's the American way. So may the truth win out."

- Bruce Springsteen

Exactly.

Comments

[rtbyjack.livejournal.com]

“The question of whether we were misled into the war in Iraq . . .” is an excellent question. It is not, however, the only question that must be asked. Hard questions must be asked about our intelligence apparatus and those of our allies. There are bipartisan, congressional intelligence committees in both houses of congress that oversee our intelligence apparatus. If the butcher Hussein truly had no WMD, then said committees along with the intelligence apparatus of our allies, their respective governments and the U.N. were all deceived. I do not recall any of the aforementioned arguing last winter/spring that the butcher Hussein had no WMD.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

IMHO, (and we know how much that's worth on today's market) at first there was discussion about what Hussein's administration was capable of - lots of uck. Multiple instances of messy, icky, uck.

But nobody could document anything. They weren't allowed in.

Then the UN finally got in. And began work. With uck still in office.

They didn't find anything significant - they found anything, it was dealt with summarily. But that wasn't good enough - we went to war on the say-so that there were WMD - we KNEW IT. Not the UN. Us. The smart ones. The only ones who would DO anything about it.

Uck was summarily removed from office. And we continued not to find anything significant - and finding whatever, we summarily destroyed it.

No, none of the aforementioned was arguing about it - unless you were listening to NPR like I was - they were the only ones broadcasting the congressional hearings on whether to give Bush the ability to go to war with Iraq if he felt it was necessary. There was a lot of discussion about it - most of it saying "are you sure you want to do this?" I heard Powell address the UN that day he claimed he had solid evidence that the Iraqis were hiding WMD - and all of the delegates ignored or pooh-poohed him. It took time to listen to all that back last winter - it was infuriating because nobody on this side of the boundary line heard this as well. Or if they did and questioned the logic of taking these actions, they were personally attacked and threatened.

For me - for me - I felt mislead before the war began. It was not a popular stance then - but I couldn't back away from it then, and I can't now.

There are a lot of good things about being conservative - that is what this quote said to me. I wish every day there was someone in office worthy of the loyalty conservatives grant this administration, I really do. But I equally believe this administration has lied, cheated and commits murder in my name every day, while claiming to be upright, moral and pro-life.

I'm tired to my marrow of it. I want to get back to where we as a country examine it all - good, bad or indifferent - without labeling its source as conservative or liberal first. Right's right, wrong's wrong - it doesn't come in red or blue first.

But there are plenty of people who would have you think it did - all they have to do is convince you of it. And they're making a healthy living on it, too.

[ersatzinsomnia.livejournal.com]

You want some real fun? Go back and see who was disagreeing on "uck" before the war. NO ONE. Hunt around in the congressional quotes and ex-presidents, and every one of them said, at one time or another in the year of wind-up to the war, that there was no doubt that Hussien had WMDs. All of the intelligence agencies said that they were there.

Now, all of a sudden, their previous memories have been erased, since it's politically advantageous to stand on that side of the fence. You really should ask yourself who's doing the lying to whom. There is a large, solid difference between lying and being mistaken. I'm sorry, but of all the people involved, you or I were in no condition to think ourselves better informed than the intelligence agencies who believed that there were WMDs in Iraq.

That said, loyalty should never be unconditional, especially in a democracy. Me, I'm waiting for the permanent installation of a puppet government where we said there'd be a democracy, or an early withdrawl of troops before I'll issue my complaints.

(Sorry....commits murder in your name every day? Care to explain that? I hardly find "returning fire" to be an epithet for "murder.")

I want to get back to where we as a country examine it all - good, bad or indifferent - without labeling its source as conservative or liberal first. Right's right, wrong's wrong - it doesn't come in red or blue first.

"Back to?" Sorry, when was that? Was it before I was born, 'cause I sure don't remember it. I remember the utter imbecilities of both sides being passed off as fact depending on which was in office at the time since long before I was capable of telling the difference.

(Incidentally, if you'll brook no dissent here, I'll happily bow out. It's your lj.)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Brook dissent? Oh please. You'll likely find me very annoying - but I don't ban people for disagreeing with me.

As far as who was disagreeing with the whole mess - I can dig up Barbara Boxer, who was one of the folks who voted against it - based on what her constituency asked her to do, 800 to 1. That quote is available - but as I said, stuff like that got squashed very well early on. She's a dirty commie, too. Just in case you didn't know. Ask anyone over at Clear Channel or Fox News. What in the congressional record would you consider acceptable?

Tired of this, I am. Very tired.

I remember Vietnam. And it's aftermath. VERY well. I can remember JFK - not so well. I remember MLK's assassination. If what you remember about "peaceful" and getting along times as the Reagan years, I feel for you - because what I know about the Reagan administrations is nearly as bad as any of the Bush administrations. That includes when he was Governor of California.

I'm also against capital punishment. I'm also against the removal of programs designed to reduce or eliminate the need for abortions. (Making abortion illegal makes little sense to me - I can remember what it was like before Roe v. Wade - and abortions happened then, too. Plenty of them. You want to eliminate abortions, you have to eliminate the need for them. Anything else is just fooling yourself.) That's murder in my name, without even considering what has been done in Iraq. Pro-life, my ass.

Returning fire? Right. That solves everything, doesn't it?

I remember when we cut out losses and left Vietnam and what we left behind when we did. THAT was why I was (and still am) against the invasion of Iraq. That's what's waiting for us - unless we do some very unpopular things like, oh, making Iraq the 51st state or some such. Ask Puerto Rico or Western Samoa how nice that is. As the Philippines how nice it is when we get tired of propping up despots like the Marcos'. We're not the only ones who do this - remember how awful the French are?

The sad story is that it sucked before - and it's not sucking a whole lot less now. The difference is that it was sucking in Iraq and it wasn't our fault - now it is. There's not enough money being spent to make it any better. And we're losing ground in Afghanistan now, to boot.

I ranted back in March. I could go on. Like how the INS hasn't got enough fundage to actually go after illegals that might be a problem - oh, no, just call in everyone from a select group of nations to come in voluntarily and then slam a whole bunch of them in detention indefinitely for paperwork fuckups - trying dealing with the INS. Everyone gets a lawyer when they have to. There's no other way. But that was so smart! Like they're going to catch someone with something to hide that way. Suuure, that'll work again. Suuuure.

Question Authority. It isn't what someone can convince you of. It's not a matter of fighting back. It's a matter of finding a way through this mess to a resolution at the other side. I don't see any of that happening. And yes, I can remember a time when that was exactly what was expected of the people in office. Period.

[ramblingsabound.livejournal.com]

Having seen 8 Springsteen shows this tour, I can attest to the fact that Bruce has been unabashedly consistent in calling for accountability and critical analysis of all actions regarding the Iraqi situation.

Bruce is a democrat, but he is the epitome of "Fair and Balanced".

If I lived in Jersey, I'd be writing him in for Senator.