sunfell brought it to my attention -

[kyburg]

Maureen Dowd suspects the feminist movement was some sort of cruel hoax. Men would rather marry their secretaries or nannies than powerful, accomplished women.

So...that being married successfully twice, and being 44 has nothing to do with my 137 IQ. (Mensa can kiss my shiny metal ass - I hate those tests, and I don't test consistently. But I do test above 127 -)

Good fucking grief.

*thinks*

Could be because I didn't date. Hmm. Didn't date. Hmm.

Hmm. Could be because I didn't make "getting a man" my main goal in life. Hmm. Was quite prepared to live alone all my life and adopt 18 year olds when I retired. Hmm.

*throws paper across the room* Like I would turn my head for someone who just wanted to date their MOMMY. Hmm.

Here is the classic example of "for every dumb thing we do to women, we do two dumb things to men" argument I trot out at every feminist meeting I've ever been to. No, don't be bright and intelligent, ladies. Men just want to fuck you. And then not speak to you. Oh, and if you want to be just like dear old Mum, all the better.

WTF. What.

Frankly, I think I married a guy like my Mom - seriously. Tender, sensitive and will kick your ass.

Although, ignoring the modeling is at your peril - James Herriot (of the 'All Creatures Great and Small' vet book fame) once mentioned that you should watch your potential spouse's interactions with the parent of opposite gender for clues as to how they likely will treat you. He was right. You don't want a Mamma's Boy, of course, but a fellow who respects, likes and supports his mother will likely do the same for you. One who ignores, complains and expressly avoids her? When you're in a pickle, who's going to handle most of it? Guess.

And a daughter who adores, respects and supports her father? As well as questions him on his politics? She can come over here and sit by me!

Your mileage may vary.

I should go post this over at fortysomething -

Comments

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

Feminists and their bashers... well, let's just say that a lot of the time, I have very little use for either.

Especially when taken to extremes.

I didn't date either. And I'm still not planning on it. And I do accept that I might well be alone, relationship wise, the rest of my life. Right now, I need to find a job in my chosen field... and not clerical.

But that's just me. =)

C.

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

I always have bad interactions with my mother. She is an abusive woman caught up in a martyr complex, denying the harm she is causing my father, sister, and me.

How I interact with her has nothing to do with how I've treated my girlfriends.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

No, but I'd wager it has had some impact on your expectations -

(Now, if that isn't asking for it, I don't know what is!)

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

I look for women who aren't into drama and hysterics. :)

Who are loving and giving without being demanding or reminding me of it all the time.

So those are my expectations.

*hug*

[miwasatoshi.livejournal.com]

Feminists and their bashers... well, let's just say that a lot of the time, I have very little use for either.

Amen.

[inagawayuu.livejournal.com]

Oh, and if you want to be just like dear old Mum, all the better.

Well, seeing as my mom is a hard-working, succesful head nurse who is a pioneer in the dialysis industry, a survivor of cancer (twice!), a hardcore sci-fi/gamer geek, an artist, and possibly one of the most active, outspoken, and intellegent women I have ever known..yeah, I want to be exactly like my mom!

She and my dad will be celebrating their 35th wedding anniversary this month, and the secret to their longevity? They are best freinds and equals who work together as an awesome team both at work and at home.

[joggingguy.livejournal.com]

I married a very smart woman :-)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

You know, I don't know many dorky guys who had mothers like ours -

I always say thank you when someone compares me to my Mom. It's a real compliment!

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I'd have to agree.

Hey, there are houses for sale in my neighborhood! Wanna move?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Oh, and did you catch this guy over at fortysomething?

"Marriage does not have to be a partnership of equals to work."

What.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I have lot more use for feminists (extremism anywhere is never good) on a historical basis.

But I still maintain a good dose of feminism is useless unless we address the stupidity we dose men with as well.

[joggingguy.livejournal.com]

"Marriage does not have to be a partnership of equals to work."

Although I also need an equal partner, I would agree with this statement too. The two people just need to want the same things. Sometimes they want inequality. Judging by the dearth of Dom-sub relationships I've encountered in the wild over the years, it's probably not too uncommon :-)

[turandot.livejournal.com]

You know, the interesting part is that while my husband's behavior can be predicted from how he treats his mom, I pretty much go out of my way not to deal with him the same way I do with my dad.

I'm way more like my dad than my mom, and being too much like him means that we both tend to think of arguments in terms of winning or losing sides. While we agree with and respect each other for the most part, any area of disagreement becomes a minefield to be threaded on carefully. Moreover, we are less than quick to forgive each other's faults on occasion, tending to take differences personally. :/

Because I recognize that the above is probably not exactly healthy behavior in a marriage, I consciously try to relate to my husband the same way I do with my mom: we both tend to cut more slack to each other, perhaps because we know we relate to things and people somewhat differently.

[reannon.livejournal.com]

Knowing what I know of Dowd, I don't think her point was that women should act dumber or actively put themselves on the marriage market. But although there are plenty of exceptions, I have to say my personal experience reflects what Dowd wrote.

Most of the guys I dated were supportive on the surface, but in the end, they didn't want an equal - they wanted someone to whom they could feel superior. It's not like I was seeking out these guys - these were the guys who sought me out. In my marriage, he was all for equality, in favor of my career - but not if he had to do the dishes or make dinner one night a week or God forbid read my work.

The last time I was single, I was a college student, so I did get to date some. Now I'm single again, and in a highly competitive, demanding job with a significant intellectual quotient - and look, no dates!

Sure, there are probably other factors. But when I watch men's reactions to intelligent women in film and television, their aversion to physically strong women in the media... I have to consider that there's validity to this theory.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I've noted the D/s relationships. They're the ones that are usually second, third, fourth, fifth marriages, too.

But hey, both parties have to agree to the rules in those relationships too. Even steven -

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Not so much that, but that you respect his right to disagree and accomodate it. That's a commonality between the two relationships, don't you think?

But it's interesting to note that you deal with your husband a lot like your Mom deals with hers (or does she stand toe to toe with him in 'winning' all the arguments?).

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

If you were sitting home nights doing nothing, I could justify the dateless condition -

You have a demanding job, a small child who requires a lot of support, not to mention all the inter-familiar drama your life has had dumped into it through no fault of your own the past year.

Chit-chat over lattes or something alcoholic just doesn't figure into the picture right now, yanno?

And as far as the male reaction to strong women - fergit about them. You don't want one of those, anyway. (Well, maybe you could love 'em and leave 'em - heh heh heh. It's an evil thought, but a satisfying one all the same....)

[turandot.livejournal.com]

Not exactly: my husband is not a "you are wrong, I am right" type of guy. That's my thing, though as I said, I just try not to get there in the first place.

My mom figures that if she's right about something, all she needs to do is give my dad more time to figure that out. He usually does, though he has a hard time admitting to having been wrong. =P

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

But even when you find them, don't you find yourself looking over your shoulder at times? Even a little?

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

I hate what being lonely has turned me into. Someone who yearns not to be lonely, who yet also doesn't want to lose the freedoms that being alone brings.

Exactly

[drsaddam.livejournal.com]

I share EXACTLY the same relationship with my mom as poetpaladin says.

And I think how I interact with mom somehow meaning that's how I'll interact with a girlfriend is a damned myth.

First of all, I'd NEVER date anyone like my mom. Ever. I date people who are psychologically more healthy, so we can get along better.

I can "get along" with mom, but it took years to figure out how to have a civil relationship. We're more acquaintances and that's as deep as it may get.

With my women friends, I have a great relationship.

Re: Exactly

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Interact no; expectations? You can't help it.

Also, I've seen too many times when the damage was done and nobody knew until the first time he got angry at his girl - and it all came out like a bad case of stuffed hallway closet.

You might guess that I really dislike toxic Asian Mommies. After cleaning up after a number of them, you have no idea.

Just...be warned. This is not something you had anything to do with. I have a great Mom - that doesn't mean I trust women. *grins*

Re: Exactly

[drsaddam.livejournal.com]

Thank you for understanding, Donna. :)

the first time he got angry at his girl - and it all came out like a bad case of stuffed hallway closet

Would you please give an example? I want to be careful how I react in that case. I agree that years of defending myself and resisting Mom have affected my reactions to people who may act like her.

How would those guys with toxic Moms react, exactly?