Book Recommendation

[kyburg]

God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It by Jim Wallis

Y'know, that Sojourners guy.

Comments

One might respectfully argue...

[coldjones.livejournal.com]

...that it's not that the Left "doesn't get it" so much as the Left has been portrayed as "not getting it" by the Right. I know more liberals who go to church than liberals who don't, it's just that they keep their religion as a private matter, not as a publically stated motivation for all their actions.

And yeah, I know it's not you who's necessarily making that argument. It's just a pet peeve of mine, apologies for venting.

Re: One might respectfully argue...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Oh, but some of the Left does get it - who was the wag who called Sojourners "semi-socialist"?

In my neck of the woods, you have to be careful going to church and espousing "liberal" ideas - I haven't been inside too many churches lately that weren't "get rich, get Republican" Bush supporters.

No, I found the liberal Christians on street corners, holding candlelight vigils.

And I am still looking for a good, comfortable fit for my church home.

Re: One might respectfully argue...

[coldjones.livejournal.com]

My point exactly.

[caitlin.livejournal.com]

WOuld it be too much to ask to leave God out of politics? I mean, REALLY?

(this is not directed at you... it's directed at all those religious nutjobs - be it GWB, Osama, Sharon, etc - who can't seem to do anything without involking the name of deity)

I know it's been intimately intwined for millenia, but REALLY...

*sheesh*

C.

[sunfell.livejournal.com]

I'm not a Christian, but this will be very useful reading. Into the wish list with it!

Sunfell

[natsumi.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the book, just the description on amazon, but why is it that moral and religious views are always written hand in hand?

"the Left pursues an unrealistic separation of religious values from morally grounded political leadership. The consequence is a false choice between ideological religion and soulless politics."

"Wallis argues that America's separation of church and state does not require banishing moral and religious values from the public square."

Separation of church and state does not mean we can't have a government founded on moral values! The idea is that most human beings share the same basics values, and very few of us share a religion. Nope, not even the christians, just try to get a catholic and a southern baptist to agree. God, gods, goddesses, or whatever don't have a place in our government; but justice, compassion, and freedom of choice do. And I'm really tired of hearing that you can't have ideals without religion. I'm not saying everyone should have the same ideas about what is right and wrong, but every one of us should be able to step outside of our own views and make decisions based on freedom and fairness for people as a whole. If you think gay sex is an abomination, then fine, say whatever you want, but don't vote against gay marriage. Marriage is not tied to religion (I got married in a courthouse, thank-you very much), and to deny a legal contract (because that's all it is) to a certain group of people is WRONG based on the ideals of our democracy.

"that is, make them pro-justice, pro-peace, pro-environment, pro-equality, pro-consistent ethic of life (beyond single issue voting), and pro-family (without making scapegoats of single mothers or gays and lesbians)."

Religion doesn't hold a monopoly on these views. Look at any of the religions of the worlds, and you will find these values. Well, except for pro-environment, alot of people haven't caught on to that one. I put that one down to lack of education. Everything else is common sense. Really just common sense. People know what's right at a basic level, but they make it more complicated than it has to be.

Sorry for the rant, but this hit a sore spot today.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

"Wallis argues that America's separation of church and state does not require banishing moral and religious values from the public square."

Why do I suspect that this is code for "LEAVE the Ten Commandments on the courthouse wall"?

As you aptly noted, "moral" and "religious" are not synonyms. Moral values are those which TRANSCEND religion. We need a government which is at least loosely based on moral values (which the present one seems not to be); we do NOT need a government based on the specific tenets of one particular religion, no matter which one it is.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

No, it's not about leaving the Ten Commandments on the wall of the courthouse.

It's more about how 'banishing religion' has obliterated any intelligent knowledge of it in our culture.

Does religion teach moral values? Not by itself - matter of fact, without something very necessary to the process, it tends to bring out the very worst in our very fallible natures.

That something? The awareness that you, by your lonesome, ain't all that. You can make mistakes, you can get angry and blow it, you can be cruel and heartless.

One of the commonalities I find in every belief system I've been exposed to is that kernel of humility and the urging that everyone try to do better at being kind to each other.

Do you need religion for that? No. But when you study it - it's the first thing you find.

So yeah, I would imagine it would be the first thing that would jump to a lot of minds when someone cries "morality! We need morality!"

Because that was likely the only place they were exposed to it, neh?

[natsumi.livejournal.com]

I suppose that's true, but I find lessons in everything I read, from fantasy novels to religious texts. Perhaps the problem with determining morals today doesn't have as much to do with "banishing religion" as it does with banishing stories. We no longer have an oral tradition in our culture, and so few of my peers read books when I was growing up. Maybe I don't feel the need to have a religion because I got all the guidance I ever needed from Marion Zimmer Bradley and Peirs Anthony. Looking at it that way, I'd say JK Rowling is doing more for helping today's youth tell right from wrong. And that thought makes me feel alot better about the future. :-)