Fuckity Fuck with Fuck Sauce

[kyburg]

One concern he and fellow doctors have is the surge in children who take antipsychotic drugs for anxiety and conditions like autism. Some newer drugs can promote weight gain and thus elevate the risk of diabetes. Dr. Shapiro has an autistic patient who he feels needs the new medication. But since taking it, the young man has markedly put on weight and, at 18, developed diabetes.

This extension of the disease to the young is where health care professionals feel society and public policy have most glaringly failed. Diabetes, they say, should never have gotten there.

There has been little research into the long-term impact of Type 2 diabetes on children. But doctors have a rough idea. The harsh consequences that can accompany diabetes tend to arrive 10 to 15 years after onset.

If people contract diabetes when they are 15, 10 or even 5, they may well start developing complications, not on the cusp of retirement but in the prime of their lives.

There is a big difference between losing a limb at 21 and at 70. There is a big difference between going on dialysis at 30 and at 65.

(Kudos to reannon for the link. For those of you just coming in, I was widowed at 37. My late husband had type I diabetes and died at the age of 36 from its complications, which included blindness, significant heart disease, strokes, amputations and kidney failure. That's the short list. He was diagnosed at age 5.)

So that medication they're giving kids is adding fuel to the fire in diabetic-prone Americans. How utterly peachy. Type II in 15 year olds. Type II. That's the one that sneaks up on you and gives you all the complications first - and you find out you have diabetes when you're in the ER after the stroke/heart attack/infection/blindness/whathave you - and the list is long and heinous.

If you don't know. If you don't suspect. I'm a big believer in knowing your family history - at least the health parts. Allergies, heart disease, cancer and particularly, diabetes - is incredibly familiar in nature. Know your enemy.

What the article fails to note is what happens when you do work the program - the results are incredible and the future is not nearly so bleak.

Jim sees diabetics day in and day out. Chest x-rays going into surgery. Most of them in pain from knees and backs buckling under enormous weight loads. So many of them under 50 years old and looking 90.

But I now have another reason to really distrust psychotropic meds in children. You have to weigh the benefits of avoiding diabetes in the bargain.

Little bitty fire, so help me. But it never fucking goes out.

Comments

[bigbigtruck.livejournal.com]

Psychotropic medication has saved my life on at LEAST one occasion - but in small children?

The only people I know with Type II had to hit 300 pounds to get it. What on earth is this guy prescribing?

[reannon.livejournal.com]

My father is type II at normal weight, healthy eating and regular exercise (tennis, golf, skiing, bike-riding). Type II accounts for something like 90 percent of cases now, according to the article.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

And you dearling, are at risk - 50% chance you inherited it as well.

But it's also a wear & tear disease - the incidence rate rises with age as well as carrying too much weight. If he knows his program and works it - it's a tough version to manage, but it can remain in the background for nearly ever. If.

It is not forgiving. You forget and slip up, and do it enough times? Deadly.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Needing medication, teenage and then type II?

I haven't got the vocabulary. UNFAIR AS HELL.

(Not a clue. Austism is not a subject I'm very deep on, and I know it.)

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

Two of the type IIs I know are and were underweight when they confirmed their diagnoses.

It's less about hte weight gain of psychotropics than the metabolism shift that causes the weight gain, as well. Slowing down the metabolism even a ittle bit can do it.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

Ghastly, heartbreaking article, wasn't it?

I think the medications are less of a problem than diet, or at least, there's a bit more of a reason to be taking psychiatric medications than there is to feed your kids nothing but sugar. I nearly strangled my ex-boyfriend when he announced he had diabetes, and that he'd been expecting that, since it ran in his family. This guy ate nothing but starch and hamburger, even knowing that, was overweight and didn't exercise - grrrrr. (He is taking better care of himself now. Most of my local diabetic friends shaped the hell up after the really sick guy had a near-miss on a foot amputation. To give that guy credit, I don't think the foot thing was negligence, it was having to work retail and stand for 12 hour shifts, combined with sickle cell clotting issues. He ended up on disability just before I did...)

And I'm so with you on the whole genetic history thing. I was even before a friend of mine dropped dead of a heart attack at age 30. He got back up again thanks to CPR, but he was adopted, you see - and had no idea that there was a serious problem with one of his main coronary arteries, or that all his male ancestors probably had serious heart problems as a result. If he'd known, he might have been a little easier on his heart in those earlier years.

It scares me that my beloved doesn't know a damn thing about the health history of his bio father's family. (Finding out would be really, really difficult, and he doesn't feel the need to do so - sigh.)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

It's one of the very few I've read that went into the real details of what I saw Cliff go through -

I can ruin anyone's day. Without trying. Just let me talk about this.

Type II and sickle cell? GHAD.

Cliff's complications began after he dropped a computer on his foot and it got infected. Just that simple. People want to assign blame to catastrophes - and some days, it's just that small and insignificant. It wasn't anything at all - and nobody or anything to blame.

But the consequences beg for it. And then, there are no answers. So people manufacture them. Sometimes, out of whole cloth. You know what I mean, neh?

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

Yeah. If they can't *see* the cause. they've got to have one. And if it's not big enough, they've got to find a bigger one. A government conspiracy at least, or bigger.

Yeah, poor bastard has sickle cell and type II, and thank God we're in California; the only reason he still has any eyesight left is that he's been a pot smoker. That works on the sickle cell pain a little too. Fortunately his health is stabilized and he's got an awesome boyfriend pushing him to take the best care of himself - and who, I'm hoping, will help take care of him as he ages.

When he got his disability settlement, a friend of ours said privately to me that he was concerned that the bloke had pretty much run out and spent it all, and wished he'd save towards the future. I had to explain that SSI doesn't let you have more than $2000 in assets or you lose all your benefits.

Any of the other diabetics I know who are still being negligent - they're going to read the whole damn series of articles. I have a birthday coming up, and that's what I'm asking for.

And meanwhile, I'm asking for cloned pancreases.

[blukat.livejournal.com]

I've known a few diabetics during my time, both I and II. Most that had it starting as children really worked hard to watch their diet, exercise all that stuff. But the others who got it later, amazing to see these people try so hard to destroy themselves when they had the power not to.

Luckily in my family only one distant second cousin had diabetes (lost foot, then life), and only one person had colon cancer (which may have been diet related since he wasn't in good health overall). You are right, family health history is so important, also family mental health.

Watching my ex deal with his "self-induced" health problems, it seems insane to me that if a person can stop something that is known to damage them physically, why not stop it?

Thank you for making me feel better about me taking my long walk today. This motivates me to keep it going.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

You never work so hard to have what everyone around you takes for granted, when you have diabetes.

Not everyone can or will rise to the challenge. It's just too much. Or, the person who discovers that it does make a difference and gets something back for their efforts?

Boy, there is nothing like a convert. But it can turn you into compulsive workaholic too.

[shadesong.livejournal.com]

But I now have another reason to really distrust psychotropic meds in children. You have to weigh the benefits of avoiding diabetes in the bargain.

That, and giving those drugs to kids with a low seizure threshold pretty much puts them in a constant seizure state. You've read my descriptions of seizures, yes?

And seizures do brain damage, and every seizure lowers the threshold a little more, and... yeah. Suffice to say that anyone with medical knowledge who knows about my epilepsy and hears that I was on those drugs goes "holy shit".

There are no benefits to those drugs, for kids. That's why they're not FDA approved for kids. The only "benefit", from the parent's angle, is that it shuts the kid up...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

You're in a catagory where they want to give psychotropic meds - you're a teen - AND then you get Type II?

There are no words. NONE.

We've become a household of diabetics

[riverheart.livejournal.com]

It used to be just me. I knew I was Type II: I was diagnosed in (I think) 1996 - either that or 1995, but I believe it was late '96, just before Samhain. What a thing to bring to a Samhain circle.

You've seen me. I'm not terribly skinny, but I'm not hugely fat, either, and I have never been. Charles just got diagnosed because he was feeling whack and I did a couple of finger-sticks on him at crucial times, and his numbers were high. We've done quite a bit of experimentation with diet and found out that his is manageable by diet and exercise alone - but try getting him to exercise! He's on his feet all day at work as it is; suggesting he go out at lunch for a brisk walk is likely to be met with scoffing. With a good diet, though, if he sticks to the carb regimen I give him, he keeps it under control, and he notices the physiological difference even without the finger-sticks.

Me, I need meds. I have to have 'em. I cannot control my diabetes with diet and exercise alone, because believe me, I have tried.

You don't have to come from a family where diabetes is prevalent to get it - there's nobody else in my family with diabetes, as far as I know, on either side. However, some research I ran into when I was first diagnosed indicated that it may be linked to high cholesterol and to high blood pressure, both of which certainly do run in my family on the maternal side.

But I saw that article, and I'm 10 years out from my initial diagnosis. And I'm not feeling terribly chipper today as a result. What's waiting around the corner for me?

Re: We've become a household of diabetics

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Well, first off - make sure you get you Hcl checked every 90 days. That will tell you more than anything else going what's ahead for you -

I've known of lupus-heavy families to have one or two Type II's crop up - that, and believe it or not? CFIDS. CFIDS and Type II together. Any kind of auto-immune or weight-related issue can be an indicator.

Last time I checked, blood sugar was part of any basic chem21 panel taken as part of a regular check up.

You want an honest opinion? Check into WW and see if you can't drop 10 lbs and see what that does to your overall picture. Take the stress off the systems -

There is a LOT to do, preventative-wise. The good news is that if you do it, you see results for it.

Re: We've become a household of diabetics

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's a certain crossover between CFIDS and diabetes or low blood sugar problems, at least, noted in the CFIDS communities, and several of the other autoimmune disorders. When I first paid attention to the CFIDS symptoms, I figured my slightly hypoglycemic metabolism (which had recently gained 10 lbs. for no visible reason) had switched over to diabetes. (My symptoms - dizzy spells and headaches and fatigue - matched those of my Type II then-girlfriend's low blood sugar crashes pretty neatly.)

I'm still cranky about the doctor who, when I carefully told him I was trying to eat a diabetic-style diet, smaller portions more often, high-protein stuff where possible, wrote down that I needed to eat more protein in my file. Listening much?

My blood sugar remains okay, which I am very grateful for. Sugar's about the only vice I have left, and I'd cry if I had to give it up. But I don't binge the way I did when I was twenty. No history of diabetes anywhere on the family trees (except one only-related-by-marraige) or I'd be a lot more concerned.

type II checking in...

[tomlemos.livejournal.com]

my father was diagnosed in his late 60's.
my brother was diagnosed in his 40's, and has since gotten it under control by diet and exercise, which is good.
I was diagnosed in my 30's and I'm pretty much in control using medication and diet and so far it is working, so we're cutting back on the meds for when they'll be needed.

I have a very good reminder of why I need to take care of myself. My aunt diet from complications from Type II diabetes and my dad's waiting for a kidney.

I understand people of my cultural background (Mexican American) have a higher instance of Type II or have one of the higher rates.

Personally I think they should be doing the standard blood tests for diabetes as part of any regular labratory routine.

Had it been mentioned to me earlier, I wouldn't have some of the problems that I have today. But the only way I found out was when a doctor decided to add in those tests to a regular blood workup.

Type II's at 15? I'm not too surprised. Especially after I've seen what some teens eat and the soda machines at the ELEMENTARY schools.

Better funded schools would be a start. Not having to count on snack machine revenue for the school would be a wonderful thing.

Re: type II checking in...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

The Pima Indian tribes in Arizona have a 75% incidence rate for Type II. And blood sugar is part of any Chem21 panel that I know of - I know mine is checked every time I get my lipids done.

I'd like to see gym become required again. That would be something more useful than anything else.

Re: type II checking in...

[bigbigtruck.livejournal.com]

But this time WITHOUT the screaming and intimidation...

Re: type II checking in...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Bad teaching is bad teaching. It doesn't mean athletics have to SUCK ASS. You betcha.

Re: type II checking in...

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

That part of the article shocked the hell out of me. No more gym in junior high schools? WTF? I thought the government was funding some national anti-obesity programs? What happened to the President's Fitness Award and all that crap?

Mind you, I hated gym at least half the time; I was an undiagnosed asthmatic who couldn't run fifty yards without having a wheezing fit. My gym grades were often abysmal because I flunked running the damn mile every time. But I liked field sports when I could play, and the benefits of exercise were obvious.

THe idea that we have a national epedemic of obesity in children, soda machines and junk in the schools, and no gym classes is some of the most irresponsible crack I've heard in quite a while. I mean, come on, the schools already HAVE a gymnasium, gym teachers can't be THAT expensive.

And gym class was one thing I could see public schools providing that was hard to match with home-schooling, too. Facilities, team sports, all that. Sheesh.

Re: type II checking in...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Yay Prop 13.

[celtfaery.livejournal.com]

I have always had an issue with giving drugs like that to kids. It seems that often we really don't know the long time effects of it. This article, like you said, just adds fuel to my fire.

[mattblakk.livejournal.com]

I know that psych meds can make kids with autism more "manageable." Thanks for the reinforcement for not ever putting that stuff into my kid.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

You know - I'd take your input on that ahead of any opinion I'd ever have.

[mattblakk.livejournal.com]

There have been times when it has been incredibly tempting to try some of the meds. Blake's difficulty sleeping at night means I haven't slept through the night in over 6 years. At some point, with diet and creating a routine I've managed to get to a point where it's livable.

I think often parents put kids like Blake on these meds to make them appear more "normal." They slow down a little and are sometimes able to focus better, but that's not, in my opinion a reason to try given the serious nature of the side effects. There's really no way to win, and I totally get where people trust doctors who are willing to put kids on the stuff, but I'm wary, and apparently for good reason.

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

My mother's family was close to a neighbor family in which "sugar" ran. The family had three daughters, Yvonne, Lea, and Bernie, all of whom were much older (18-25 years) than my mother. When I was a kid, I remember that Yvonne had one leg cut off, then the other, then she died. Same with Lea. When Bernie, the youngest, started to have circulation problems, Bernie's two daughters steered their mother away from the local doctors and to a Boston hospital. Bernie got different treatment from her older sisters, and she had to lose only one toe. She lived to be a few months short of 90.

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

I should add that that NY Times article made me think that *I* really should have my blood sugar checked at my next exam. Just in case. *shudder*

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

It's really simple stuff these days - I used to use myself as a control to check meters for Cliff.

I think about the amount of times I stuck myself with insulin syringes accidentally and grin sometimes. Yeah, it smarted a little - and when I remember, I thanks the powers that that experience was all the exposure I got to it.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

My Dad and his mom were both diagnosed in their late 50s. I guess I'm doomed.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Hmm. No. You're prepared. There's a difference and don't you ever forget it.

Knowledge is power -

[kali-ma.livejournal.com]

They put my stepdaughter on Paxil for "Oppositional Defiant Disorder" (translation - she is a girl who isn't sweet and compliant) and she became completely uncontrollable and ended up in the mental hospital at age 8. Did they say, "Gee, we put her on a drug and she went from having some minir behavior problems to being suicidal and violent in less than a week, maybe we should wean her off the drug"? No... they put her on some godawful combo of stuff, changing it every so often. She had always been a slender child, but she gained about 30 pounds, all in her stomach. Finally when she started twitching they weaned her off the drugs. Now she is back to her former normal weight.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

There's no way in hell I'd approve Paxil. Last resort, maybe. But the result you describe? I've heard it more than once, in more than a few cases - like clockwork. In adults, paranoia is the main side effect - and the withdrawl process is not to be believed.

No. Not this little red hen. No way.

[kali-ma.livejournal.com]

I had great fun with Paxil - the suicide attempt, the hallucinations, and the complete inability to have an orgasm. And yes, I had to go off it AMA because the doctors wouldn't listen to me.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

There are so many names for new ways to describe "not the norm" in children--syndromes to describe willfullness, creativity, energy, etc. It all seems to be geared more for the parent and teacher, making kids behave enough like each other that running them through the school system is less work.

I'm no Tom Cruise on this, I think anti depressants and mood altering drugs have their place. But for heavens sakes, when drugs are this widely prescribed for such a variety of mood disorders, it may be time to either figure out why so many kids are sick, or start to take the source of all these diagnosese with a grain of salt.

[kali-ma.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Even in adults, the trend to take them bothers me. It feels like one day I woke up and half of my friends had been prescribed anti-depressants, and ALL say the same thing when I ask if they think it was a good idea - "You don't understand, I'd be dead without these - I'll have to take them for the rest of my life." I find it... odd... that they all say the same thing. These are people who lived for years without taking them, so I have trouble believing they would inevitably die without SSRIs. Either one day in the last few years they all woke up with incurable suicidal tendencies, or they are being brainwashed to believe they are mentally defective.