POV

[kyburg]

Much in the vein of interdictor, who gave the most incredible eyewittness reports during Hurricane Katrina last year (are you still reading him? You should be....), a voice comes out of Lebanon.

cedarseed. Some pieces I found most amusing?

"I would like to know why this Israeli jet is circling so loudly overhead for the past 10 mn and if it would just please drop that bomb and get it over with, because the suspense is killing me."

"Just received this in the mail, this is too good!!
A WW2 Lebanese saying that is still widely used goes: It's the Italians' fault!
And here's the proof!

Subject: Tout est de la faute des italiens !!!

en 1982 l'Italie gagne le mondial et Israel envahit le Liban

en 2006 l'Italie gagne le mondial et Israel envahit le Liban

la prochaine fois que l'Italie gagne le mondial, tous aux abris !!!!

(In 1982 Italy wins the World Cup, and Israel invades Lebanon
In 2006 Italy wins the World Cup, and Israel invades Lebanon
Next time Italy wins the World Cup, take cover!)

Lebanese war humour..."

But some of the other posts are sobering:

"I can't believe I still have to explain away our "president"... I am SO pissed off at journalists who are interviewing him. The man is boycotted by government's like France, shouldn't that give them a clue about the bastard? Jesus Christ! I'm writing this post so that I never have to answer a "Is this your president??" comment again.

The man was not elected, he was imposed by Syria, and this is not something whispered among ourselves, it is a widely established fact. Syria violated our constitution to re-name him as head of state, and you may not know this, but it is this fact that caused the ripples that led to Hariri's assassination and the so-called Cedar Revolution. Can you guess what 2 million Lebanese demanded on March 14, apart from "Syria out"? That's right, Lahoud's resignation.

The question of that disgrace's impeachment was debated from last year all the way up to the beginning of this conflict. Those who opposed it did so in the name of not breaching the constitution again by demoting him. The general idea was that it would be less trouble to wait for him to expire as the newly elected government had enough on its hand as is, and the puppet being deprived of its puppeteer couldn't cause any trouble. In fact, he has been shut up in his hole for so long, away from the crowds that hate him unanimously (and say so to his face), we were wondering if he was still alive.

Now of course he is having a ball since this business and all this foreign press is giving him a chance to be on the scene again – never mind that anything that comes out of him is hot air and ignored by the acting gov't. Those JACKASS journalists are not bothering to explain his position, so now everybody's thinking "ooh, this person represents Lebanon, and look what he's saying!"

OF COURSE the douche bag supports HA! They serve the same master, and they're the only people who'll still give him the time of day if he sucks up to them enough, given the rest think he should at least kill himself to regain some kind of dignity. I mean give me a break, other presidents are not even acknowledging his existence (he was not invited to the Francophonie summit this year, the PM was instead). Don't tell me the press is not aware of that when they publish those sensational "I adore nasrallah" interviews of his.

And I will add, he's a moron. No, seriously, he's dumb as a rock. I know people who;'ve known him since his teens. He. Is. A retard. Listen to him speak and tell me this is someone who has a brain of his own and is not spouting up a nicely memorised lesson, if you dare.

I just want to kill somebody when someone comments implying this subhuman speaks for us. And I definitely want to tear journalists a part when they deliberately make it look like he does."

I certainly know how you feel, toots. I surely, surely do.

And balanced? Try this:

My connection was down all morning. Major catching up.

First, this ridiculous bit that is making people speculate for nothing: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3281971,00.html
One word: bullshit. The vagueness of the info (and bias of the source) alone should have made you smell a rat. Without knowing SPECIFICALLY what question was asked, to what section of the population, when and in what areas, I won't believe a word of it. The majority of the Lebanese may be angry at Israel right now (and rightly so), but I don't believe for an instant that THAT many of them are so dumb and vindictive that they suddenly think this kidnapping, that brought them all this misery, was a good idea. Even if Israel had not reacted the way it did, this percentage would not be achieved. So please, don't spread rumors before verifying them.

Anyway, you don't hear anybody crying over the dead HA, do you?? Anyone noticed that the army was Not sent to help them?

Second: This is very good complementary reading, from the other side of the border: http://israelnorthblog.livejournal.com/

I'll be back in a few hours. I have to catch up on some work and to go see a friend."

..

I'm a pretty simple person, when it comes down to it.

If someone is murdered, I don't cry REVENGE, I cry WTF - because someone made the ultimate blunder and fucked up. Killing 100 people to compensate for the one killing is 100 fuckups in addition to the original fuckup.

And unless you're dealing with level-headed people, more fuckups follow the fuckups.

I've yet to see enough fuckups settle anything. The only thing that ended the fuckups was the ending of fuckups.

By both of the parties fucking up.

And you do realize none of the fucking up reverses the state of the original murder, right?

Dead is dead. Dead is forever. That's why it's to be avoided.

(Note I don't identify the party when deciding it's a fuckup, either.)

Comments

[raspberrypie.livejournal.com]

i've friended cedarseed for over a year now, and she's always interesting and insightful. always nice to read, though now it's a bit less optimistic (understandably so).

[lokabrenna.livejournal.com]

That last bit? Man, I love the way you talk. Write. Write like you're talking.

[stoneself.livejournal.com]

good read

[n6vfp.livejournal.com]

A very good read. I always look to the other side for a balanced view and reading the blogs from Iraq opened my eyes even before the invasion. Thanks for sharing these views. I cannot understand why people think that revenge is the way to go. Dumb people do dumb things and revenge seems to be popular with dumb people. Primitive people, primitive reactions (revenge and honor killings), disastrous results (constant war and killing).

[murphymom.livejournal.com]

cedarseed's journal is mentioned in Jon Carroll's SF Chronicle column today. He also points to www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com for a face to the Iraq war.

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's been reading cedarseed. I've found her blog, along with bloggingberuit.com to be most informative, and have been following them for days now. So much of this stuff isn't appearing on the news. Still have yet to hear about the oil spill from our big guns.

And yes, dead is dead. I am not happy with this conflict at all.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

I am not happy with this conflict at all.

Then support the Israelis. They're killing the people who started the conflict -- the Islamic fascists. The faster the people who started it are killed, the faster the conflict will end.

Violence DOES solve SOME problems.

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

Woah there.

No. Violence only begets more violence. Violence solves nothing, and I've always believed that.


As for the Israelis, they're killing more than just the HA, they're killing lots of civillians. That is an atrocity. Note that the Lebanese does not equal Hizbollah.

[miwasatoshi.livejournal.com]

HA + Emile Lahoud = Syrian puppets.

Lebanese civilians = "collateral damage".

Why does humanity never learn? (And why did I see this coming the moment the bomb went off under Hariri's caravan?)

[miwasatoshi.livejournal.com]

Stop: before I have to hear another bullshit line about "cracking a few eggs to make an omelet", let's remember Iraq and Afghanistan. Did killing Ba'ath and Taliban make the War on Terror stop? Of course not. We're still there.

Oops.

Oh, and in case you've forgotten, this is merely the latest war in a string of wars dating back half a century.

Yeah, Israel exists thanks to having won a bunch of wars. Yes. But violence has obviously NOT solved the Israel/Palestine/Everyone Else conflict, no matter what the hell it might look like over there in Tarrant County.

Think of it this way: Israel is doing the rough equivalent running over to Grenada for a quick jaunt to bushwhack some Cuban regulars. Except that, unlike the Cubans, Syria is hardly being dissuaded from its puppetry over Lebanon -- Emile Lahoud is still the president, and Bashar Assad is still the power behind Emile Lahoud, and Israel is going to continue to look bad regardless of whether they're "right" or not. HA didn't "start this" -- if you want to look at the big picture, you can say the UK started this by promising the same land to the Jews and the Arabs during the late colonial period.

Oops, again.

I'd love to support the Israelis. Half my family is Jewish. But I can't help but think this time that this was really disproportionate and a really stupid move on the part of a government that really ought to know better.

Yes, violence DOES solve SOME problems. Entebbe immediately comes to mind. But violence, like all energy (creative or destructive), must be properly directed to be the most efficient.

Sure, you can crack an egg with a hammer ... but everyone can agree that's a really stupid way to make an omelet.

But hey, we all know the Israelis can do no wrong. It's not like that nation was founded by terrorist bombers or anything.

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

"Israel's moral scrupulousness is being paid in blood — and yet they're still branded as evil personified

"What other country, when attacked in an unprovoked aggression across a recognized international frontier, is then put on a countdown clock by the world, given a limited time window in which to fight back, regardless of whether it has restored its own security?

"What other country sustains 1,500 indiscriminate rocket attacks into its cities — every one designed to kill, maim and terrorize civilians — and is then vilified by the world when it tries to destroy the enemy's infrastructure and strongholds with precision-guided munitions that sometimes have the unintended but unavoidable consequence of collateral civilian death and suffering?

"Hearing the world pass judgment on the Israel-Hezbollah war as it unfolds is to live in an Orwellian moral universe. With a few significant exceptions (the leadership of the United States, Britain, Australia, Canada and a very few others), the world — governments, the media, U.N. bureaucrats — has completely lost its moral bearings."

Complete text from The Jewish World Review

[miwasatoshi.livejournal.com]

Enemy's infrastructure? Right, because the Hezbollah is largely using Lebanese civilian infrastructure. You might as well be carpet-bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail. That didn't work for us either.

I know Israel is making the attempt to avoid civilian casualties as much as possible, but they are still fighting a proxy war that is merely fighting the symptoms and not the cause, and you know it.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

And when it comes to having weapons pointed everywhere and the sheer number of them?

WE could bury the world in them, and have leftovers. (And really nasty ones, too. Nukes. By the bushel basket full.) By that description, da US is the biggest terrorist on the block.

*facesmacks*

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

No, I don't know it. They are fighting directly against the people who are launching rockets at civilians on purpose: Hizbollah. Of course, the real victory won't come until the death-loving Islamic fascism that creates war around the world lies as shattered and broken as Imperial Shintoism, Communism, and Nazism are... but that's a long-term project, and it may be possible to destroy the enemy's culture without a full-scale shooting war.

If the Israelis reallly wanted to kill civilians, they could kill every Muslim civilian in Beirut, Damascus, and Tehran in a single afternoon at no risk to their own troops. The fact that such a course of action is unthinkable shows who the Good Guys are in this conflict. On the other hand, the Bad Guys -- the Islamic fascists -- have stated openly and more than once that their goal is to exterminate every Jew in Israel, and you know very well they would do so if they could.

Oh, and by the way, bombing the Ho Chi Minh Trail was effective to a degree, but what really worked on the communists in North Vietnam was carpet-bombing the hell out of Hanoi. That's what finally brought them to the negotiating table -- pure, naked violence -- and ended our involvement in Vietnam. The leaders of the NVA later admitted that our bombing had them on the ropes -- that, had we kept it up, they would have collapsed from within in short order.

We did not, and the result had been thirty years of slavery and misery for the Vietnamese.

[miwasatoshi.livejournal.com]

You're forgetting something fairly crucial:

Imperial Shintoism, Communism, and Nazism all fell not due to the moral supremacy of Capitalism, but the productive and military supremacy of Capitalism. Quite simply, because we have superior military capabilities because it profits us to do so, not because it has any innate morality.

Why did Imperial Japan lose? It clearly lacked the natural resources and industrial capability to take on the United States, and out of its generals, a mere handful had the initiative to do what must be done (and even then, they thought war with the US was a Bad Idea, ie Admiral Yamamoto).

Why did Nazi Germany lose? Morality aside, its leader was a complete and utter nutcase, and again, this was another nation without the natural resources and industrial capability to take on the United States.

Why did the Soviet Union lose? It has the resources, but not the infrastructure -- plus its production capabilities did not have the corresponding level of tech to keep up. They were running the economy to the ground to keep up with the US, and in the meantime, their economic system was clearly inadequate to maintain that sort of production at the quality necessary to keep up.

So why did we lose the Vietnam War? Was it a lapse of morality? It's simpler than that -- it was no longer profitable for us to prop up the South Vietnamese. The NVA might have collapsed from continued carpet bombing ... but the fact is they didn't. Of course, nowadays they're nearly as capitalist as we are. And regardless of morality, we do have the NVA to thank for ending the Killing Fields of Cambodia (and yes, that is definitely an example of properly channeled violence solving improperly channeled violence).

The assertion that Israel has automatic moral supremacy is suspect at best -- most people conveniently forget (thanks to the Holocaust) that the fight to establish Israel as a nation was largely carried out by attacks on civilians (Irgun / Haganah / the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte by Lehi, etc) so from a global perspective, this is merely a continuation of the pointless retaliatory acts between two groups of people that were promised the same land by the British almost a century ago. Moral supremacy or not, Israel has benefited from clearly superior tactics, strategy, and technology; the IDF may as well be literally the Invincible Army of the Covenant for all their successes.

But all that military succuess has not solved the "peace problem" and thinking that bombing the hell out of South Lebanon is going to do it "this time" is nothing short of naive.

[misskris.livejournal.com]

i've been reading her LJ for weeks now, and it's fascinating. i liek the perspective she brings. especially when we don't get the full story over here. plus, her artwork is amazing.

[breau.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to add that I've seen your userpic in a doctor's office when I was in Windsor, ON .. I'd never seen that before - but it's a genius idea.. I wonder if people actually pay if they're asked to .. *lol*