Too much bread, not enough butter -

[kyburg]

divalea? Represent, please.

It's happened to someone else.

Do I need to mention house fires are more common this time of year? I don't? Okay.

Watch the old cords, don't leave candles burning unattended - don't leave the Christmas lights on when you leave the house, and put the outdoor lights on a timer. Don't sleep with them on. Okay? We clear on that?

Troops, I need some help with a ticklish subject. And I don't mean ticklish in a good way.

One of my oldest, most conservative friends - has approached me in dire financial straits. I've already committed to what help I can provide, and it won't save him. Not even close.

Past that - there's the rub.

It's by his own hand. No other place to put the blame - and I was quite pointed (and you know how sharp I can get) some time ago in warning him about working for people who Don't Pay You. He has five children, a wife compromised by CP - and is diabetic himself. And older than me.

And I told him I would be very angry with him if he didn't take some steps to protect himself against just this very day.

*gulp*

I'm willing to listen to opinions on this one. I can't kill him, tie him to a tree - or really, do anything useful.

Anything I can say, I'm certain he already knows. It's been a long time, and he and his family were intimately involved with Cliff's care since 1992. We're family, by choice. He knows.

And as the sole provider, he's taken five children and his wife with him. I haven't wanted to hit someone like this in so long...and the worst part, I was just thinking about them the other day (that 'you've been on my mind thing' - never good) - and found myself misting up over it. I knew, too. I do know who I'm dealing with.

Angry was a long, long time ago. Long gone.

Would it surprise anyone that this is one of my most conservative friends? I often use him as a touchstone - because while he's a Rushie, a devout Catholic and as red as the day is long - he's also one of the most consistent, loving, giving presences in my life. Not to mention smarter than the average bear. If he had it, and I needed it - I got it. But not money - this is the first time it's gotten to this point.

It's the years worth of days he's made the decision not to protect himself and provide for himself and his family. I don't understand it at all. It must have been a whole lot of fun and ego-boo, that's all I can say.

I want to sit him down and make him find a job that makes him money every single day. He's so certain working for himself is going to be the answer, and in all the years I've known him, it hasn't been. He isn't playing to strengths. And time is out. It's gooooone.

This is my oldest of twenty. Gods, he knows better. He knows what's happening.

What is my saying anything going to do? This isn't something I'd ever have done, or consider doing. It wasn't safe.

I'm going to give him a call and see if they need shoes, too. What else can I do? *throws up hands*

If I were him, I'd be deaf right now from all the scolding. Adding my voice to the chorus just doesn't make sense.

So here's the question, troops. Say something? Say nothing -

I'm open to suggestions.

Comments

Say nothing

[djdig.livejournal.com]

What can you really say besides "I warned you"? That's not helpful at this point.

It's very nice of you to think of offering shoes.

Good luck!

[vampireanneke.livejournal.com]

Sadly, people will only change if they want to. He obviouslly doesn't, despite good reasons to change (wife, children, etc...). You can only help so much, and it's hard to not do more when it's a friend, but you do what you can and let god take care of the rest.

[ionotter.livejournal.com]

he's also one of the most consistent, loving, giving presences in my life. Not to mention smarter than the average bear. If he had it, and I needed it - I got it. If I were him, I'd be deaf right now from all the scolding. Adding my voice to the chorus just doesn't make sense.


You said it best, hon. He knows all too well what he's done wrong, and there's naught to be done but make do. Perhaps the best thing you can tell him is that you'll do your best to stick with him. I think that would sting him plenty, honestly?

It might make you feel better to let loose with an "I told you so!", but it won't do him or his family much good, and will only add to his pain. And by proxy, yours as well.

This is still a bit of a poser, though. I mean, you'll do what you can, but as you say, it's not enough to pull him out of whatever trouble he's in. Not by yourself, anyway, which is why I think you need to seek help elsewhere. Charity organizations, church organizations, job services; anything that might help.

If you were to tell him anything, it might be better to steer them towards job counselling, and probably some emotional counselling as well. A man this old who's playing games like this is in some sort of denial, and needs professional help.

[machineplay.livejournal.com]

One of the best things you can do for your friend may be to offer to advocate for him, to offer to sit down with him and start working on a strategy. If you have time, you could do some legwork for him with researching any groups that might offer relief for him and his family, credit counselling, and employment counselling. And sometimes, legwork isn't what's needed so much as a sounding board and a person to help make sense of all the information.

Is there any chance that he is suffering from anxiety or depression or some other emotional disorder that is pushing him toward bad judgements like this? It sounds like he has his hands full -- but that's not really an excuse in the end, and it can he helped.

Keeping it real with him is probably, in the end, the best thing you can do, if nothing else. I think if I were you, I'd go to him and say "This is how I see it, this is what I'm able and willing to do for you." I don't think you need to say anything but what you're willing to do. Action is needed. So many people have opinions but few people have a plan.

[loveanddarkness.livejournal.com]

This guy flushed his life, and his family's life, down the toilet with his ridiculous, absurd, impractical, foolish decisions.

The ONLY thing you can do is get him into a job training program that'll take him on and get him into a new career that pays a salary and benefits.

He can't sell himself through resumes and job searches right now. He's got nothing but failure to put on that paper and people will see right through him. He's got to start over from scratch, and be something different. Age is against him. He'll be lucky to get anything.

In the meantime, I'd help him find ways to get welfare and charity, every place he can apply for it. That should shake him out of his Rush Limbaugh worship real fast, once he realizes that he has entered the 'lazy welfare bum underclass' that he's probably spent years deriding.

[elfwench.livejournal.com]

Say it, but don't scold it. Scolding will only lead to closed ears and hurt feelings.

It's lovely of you to want to help them still. He needs the hand out, but more so he needs a hand up, even if it's just suggestions that help him think outside his box and do what is necessary to get back on track. I know you are good at that. I just hope he's willing to listen. Hand ups only work if he's willing to reach back and grasp, and he desperately needs to do that even if he has to do it for himself and look for his own stable solution to reach to to pull himself out of this.

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

Probably doing the "I told you so," dance won't help things. I'd say nothing for now, because he probably realizes his mistake. I think that's your best bet. And also, if you're close to the rest of his family, think of it as doing this for them.

Good luck on this. It's never easy being in situations like this.

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

What happened? I understand someone is in poor financial straights, but there must be some journal entry I'm missing.

I have a sneaking suspicion who this is. Smarter than the average bear, five kids, etc. Am I right?

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

If his pride will still allow him to swallow your conditions, then make your financial commitment to him conditional on certain steps being taken...

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Not a chance. One of the things I firmly believe in, is that if you wish to do a thing - do it without conditions. I won't lend money - ever - for that reason.

If you need help, and I can give it - I give it freely, or not at all.

Under the circumstances, I don't think putting any conditions on assistance right now would help - not at all.

As to the other - hmm. You may have met. (I thought you were an only child....*winks*)

[poetpaladin.livejournal.com]

Same people I met Christmas Eve last year?


Only child?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

(Think it goes without saying that this needs to be kept quiet and considerate? Yeah.)

Say something

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

You know that horse and water addage? Yeah, that.

He may not want to hear it now but perhaps, just perhaps, he'll be listening deep inside and take you up on the offer later. Do what you can and moreover, what you yourself feel you ought to do. Immediate help, with the warning that it comes with a lecture. Then lecture with a sincere offer to help with the subject of the lecture is probably your best bet. But make it just one; multiple lectures lead to the equivalent of fingers in ear.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

For me what I am willing to do is very dependent on whether or not they are actually dealing with the problem or still engaging in the behaviour that is caused it. Whether the cause be what you've described, drugs, whatever.

If they aren't willing to change, and help I can give is just throwing out a rope that's not tied to anything. They use up my time, money and compassion and just keep going on the track that is getting them into trouble.

You might be able to offer help to his family though, if his wife is aware of what's going on.

[moropus.livejournal.com]

If you want to do this you could sit him down and help him with a resume' and point him at some jobs he might have a chance at. Then take him around and make him sign up for food stamps, charities, etc.

He could still get a temp Christmas job, maybe, to start him out.

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

If what he needs right now is help, and if you can, good on you for it. I'd hold off on the lecture til he's in a stable place enough to listen. But once he is, don't hold back. Nothing worse than feeling kicked when you're down.

Even a simple "I suppose telling you you should have known better would be pointless right about now?" might be enough of a shothand for all the lectures he will be getting

[chipuni.livejournal.com]

Give what you honestly can give. But remember to keep boundaries: don't give what you cannot give.

Don't bother preaching to him. He's, errr, gaining experience right now. ("Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.")

Maybe when he's not in the middle of a crisis, he'll be able to rationally go over everything. But help him to put out the worst fires first.

Finally, if he's smarter than the average bear, he should have some marketable skills. It may not be enough to do everything, but it may be a start.

Good luck.

[foogod.livejournal.com]

What I would do in this situation:

First, do what needs to be done. Whatever it is, deal with the problem and work on getting him out of whatever mess he's managed to get himself into. Always fix problems first, then turn to the causes.

I don't know whether he's the type to be bright enough to work this out for himself or not, but if not, you may need to make it clear that this isn't a "get out of jail free" card that he can rely on in future when it all happens again. Help with fixing the problem is conditional on ultimately fixing the causes too, and he needs to be willing to commit to that.

As you said, he knows whose fault this is already, and he's probably hearing it from lots of other places too. Adding your voice to the chorus doesn't help anything, and will likely just make him tune you out, which you don't want to happen. Wait for everybody else to die down. Wait for him to get somewhat stable again and out of panic mode. Wait for a while.

But don't forget it. When it's all died down a bit and he has a bit of distance from the panic, then talk to him about it, and scold him about it, and whatever you need to do. That's the point at which he needs to listen to you, and that's the point at which he should start making decisions about how to keep it from happening ever again. (A single voice in a crowd is lost, but a single voice in a quiet place is difficult to ignore)

One thing at a time. In the right order.

[divalea.livejournal.com]

I got naienko a years' paid account plus yooooserpics. Creature comforts that take up minimal space are the key when one is between places.

As for your friend, can you help the kids and wife? Do they need prescription assistance? (pparx.org has simple-to-do forms)