Okay, that's officially weird.

[kyburg]

Ever wondered what the poverty line actually is?

Here you go. It's enlightening.

Just how much less would you have to earn to actually fall below that line? How many more people would you need in your household to "justify" what you do earn? In our case, it's pretty scary. Two people are currently living on what more than 20 people would need to fall below the poverty line.

The documentation is federal information, but it's provided as part of a California program called PACT - something you might take a looksee at for general purposes.

http://www.familypact.org/

"Family PACT is California's innovative approach to provide comprehensive family planning services to eligible low income men and women. This clinical program increases access to services by expanding the provider network to include medical providers, pharmacies and laboratories."

Yay California.

Comments

[musicalchaos.livejournal.com]

Interesting, according to that, I was working a job below the poverty line, and even if I'd been given the 40 hours a week I wanted, I still would've been a good 4,000 below. Mind, my job was actually paying a good little bit more than minimum wage in Cleveland. Scary thought. And people wonder why I say the minimum wage needs to raise and be based upon a county basis for cost of living.

[luscious-purple.livejournal.com]

And how much is the typical rent/mortgage payment in much of California?

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, I pay $1,415 for a 2BR/2BA apartment in a questionable neighborhood (high crime rate). And that's the lower end of the scale. Other apartments in the Bay Area can charge anywhere from $1,400 ~ 1,800 for similar. In San Francisco, a 2BR/2BA can easily start at $2,000. The median house is still well within the $550 ~ 600k range for much of the Bay Area; $800k for San Francisco. The prices are ridiculous.

I'm not sure about Southern California but I can't imagine it's all that much better.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

*nods* We're buying. And we bought when the market was good.

Our 3BR/1BA house is also in a very "prized" location - it never depreciates - so that's the largest reason it's so valuable.

Monthly payments on a 30 year FHA are about $2,700 a month. That also pays the property taxes and insurance, BTW.

Comps right now are running damn near half a million in our neighborhood. We're financed for about $250K below that.

[n6vfp.livejournal.com]

After I retire I will just be above the poverty line but plan on moving to a poor area so I'll be at the median income for the area. Economic numbers are strange sometimes.

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

That's interesting because an article from SFGate (SF Chronicle) today noted that ?$50,000 isn't enough for a family of four to live in the Bay Area, yet that's still far above the poverty line. A family of four needs to earn $77,000+ to meet the basic needs. And that income won't buy you a starter home in a shitty neighborhood. Nope, nope, nope. There's something disgustingly screwed up about today's economy.

[legolastn.livejournal.com]

Yep, and if I'm reading that table right the poverty line for a family of four is actually considered half the number they list (which is 200% of poverty). Unfortunately, the federal poverty line doesn't consider different costs of living.

[turandot.livejournal.com]

It's like someone else said: the figure is census based, i.e., a national measure. It does not consider the cost of living based on area per area. My guess is that where the federal government says you're too rich, the state and county usually pick it up. Thats why a lot of people (mainly senior citizens) in a lot of areas in this country are not technically "poor", but they can apply for energy bill assistance. =p

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

We have special FHA caps, because it just takes that much more to buy a house here.

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

Yeah, same here. I'm very familiar with the Cal HFA program because it's the only way we'll ever be able to hope to afford a home in the Bay Area is through a 30 or 40 year HFA loan. But housing prices still haven't dropped to the point that I'd even feel comfortable with an HFA loan.

Get this -- the moderate income ceiling to qualify for the CalHFA program for Alameda county (where I live) for 1 or 2 person households is $95,532; 3+ person household is $111,454. The low income is $60,366 for 1 or 2 person, $69,386 for 3+.

It's scary from a financial perspective when you can be considered low income for these loans even when you pull in around $60k.

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that those are just the income caps for resale homes. The price limits are actually $585,699 for a new construction ($715k for a new construction in a "targeted" zone) and $670k for a resale home ($819k in a "targeted" zone).

Most anywhere else in the country, these would probably be considered palaces. In Alameda county, these home price limits will more than likely get you an entry level house and a neighborhood that might not kill you. (Targeted zones not included as targeted zones are zipcodes that, in my experience, are often slated for gentrification.)

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

Most local programs use numbers with a state or local "percentage" of the Federal poverty numbers, but many local programa are having to cut back because the Feds are cutting programs every year - and funding for those programs.

The Federal government says I am "too rich" because my Federal disability check brings in $11,000 a year, putting me around 110 percent of the federal poverty level for a single person.

I used to qualify for Medicaid, two years ago, on the same income. The state has raised my monthly "share of cost" to $500. I've let Medicaid lapse because it is actually cheaper to pay out of pocket (for the 20% Medicare doesn't cover on most things, or the 100% of things Medicare just doesn't do at all) - but only if I skip less-essential medical care like physical therapy and don't get any sicker.

[feyandstrange.livejournal.com]

Wrong. The reality is worse.

Please note: those numbers are in fact (as it says above the table) 200% of the federal poverty rate.

Here are the actual Federal numbers and some more data:
http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/07poverty.shtml

Most state-based programs use a percentage of the federal poverty guidelines and/or some adjustment per areas like cities. However, Federal programs only have adjustments for ALaska and Hawaii. THe numbers are also pretty skewed, because they're based on some 1960 assumptions about things like food taking up nearly a third of one's income - these days housing is the biggest eater of income. (The above link has more info and more links.)

So even with the Federal poverty level at about $10,000 for a single person - **over 80 percent of Federal disability recipients are below that Federal poverty line**. And that's including the ones who can and do work for a living. (For reference: if I were living alone on my SSDI check, which is in the 90 or 95th percentile and almost at the maximum disability level - I hover only a little above those Federal poverty levels at $11,000 a year. Being above the level means I don't qualify for Medicaid (okay, I do, but my share of cost is seriously $500 a month!).

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

How shocking.

For years, I made below 12k, and lived alone. So much for my degree.

If I were single now, my income would be below still.

[stoneself.livejournal.com]

it isn't that the poverty line is so low. ie. that you have to make so very little to be considered poor.

it's that the "official" poverty line isn't high enough. ie. that you aren't considered "officially" poor, when you make a little more than what is "officially" poor, but still can't make end meet.

* * *

this is not to obviate the fact that many people live way way above the poverty line.

[ecstaticlght.livejournal.com]

Yep, still poor. We've lived below that line for over 10 years. Oddly enough I've not be so poor that we qualified for any State aid in 8 of those years. I guess I should tell my 20 he can still tell everyone he's from a poor family.... We live what I call the "simple" life. Sometimes I wonder what it would feel like to not have to worry, but then I also know that I could be over that line and still be seriously stressed about the daily stuff. Medicine (diabetic son), roof, food, shoes, utilities.

One of my bones of irritation through the years has been watching the people that make a nice bit of change, decide to live the "simple" life. Sheesh it would be nice to have that choice to start with wouldn't it? :)

[moropus.livejournal.com]

This totally has to be revised to reflect where you live. In some rural Southern areas, that's a good living. You can't rent a closet in California for what I am buying a nice house in rural SC. You'd call it a 3 bedroom starter house if it didn't have a 3 acre yard, but there's plenty of room for the 2 of us and we consider it our real house, not a starter house.