Oh man.

[kyburg]

A Dutch couple living in Hong Kong yesterday found themselves at the centre of an international controversy after they gave up their daughter for adoption seven years after they adopted her themselves.

Raymond Poeteray, 55, who has worked as a Dutch diplomat for more than 20 years, and his wife, Meta, adopted Jade, an ethnic Korean girl, when she was four months old.

She's been in foster care outside the family for over a year. And no, no adoptive family has been identified for the child to move towards - even after being in care for over a year.

Nobody is talking much, outside of saying it's traumatic, etc. Natch.

Gods. It would be useful information, if they could simply say what went wrong.

And why, oh why, is there no attempt to find the birth family. Even at this remove. *kicks*

Comments

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

But it would be with people like her, biologically linked to her, all the other things most children take for granted.

Being in the middle of a bunch of white people who I had never met, whose language I didn't speak, and whose culture was entirely alien to me, would be extremely scary, not comforting (and I'm an ADULT). Biological connection means VERY LITTLE to children (after all, they probably don't even really know what it is yet). What means a lot to them is safety and security, a feeling of continuity. Children fear change because they are vulnerable and they know it. This girl needs as little change and as much stability as possible.


And frankly, if they want her - they SHOULD have her.

Why? they gave her away. They have no legal or moral right to her. In fact she'd be ostracized as a bastard in their community.


Go ask the folks over at Bastard Nation - they can give it to you, chapter and verse.

Or I could ASK my KOREAN BROTHER. Who will be like, uh, that is crazy.


They *should* be looking for a placement back in Korea.

I entirely disagree. It is insane to place a seven-year-old child in a foreign country with people whose language she doesn't speak and whose culture is entirely alien to her just because of some romantic idea about bloodlines. She should be placed with a loving family with whom she can actually COMMUNICATE.

THINK a minute before you go off half-cocked on these uber-liberal fantasies and bloodline obsessions. This child is seven. she is in school. Exactly how do you propose that she should function in a KOREAN school when she speaks and writes CANTONESE and ENGLISH? She'll be plunged into a social and classroom environment where she can't even communicate with her peers. She'll have absolutely NO ONE that she knows or can even speak to, including in her "blood family." She won't know the local customs, foods, etc.

That's your perfect solution, is it? Because the shape of her eyes matches theirs, all that doesn't matter, she'll automatically be comfortable? Seriously, no more crack for you.

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

Being in the middle of a bunch of white people who I had never met, whose language I didn't speak, and whose culture was entirely alien to me, would be extremely scary, not comforting (and I'm an ADULT). Biological connection means VERY LITTLE to children (after all, they probably don't even really know what it is yet). What means a lot to them is safety and security, a feeling of continuity. Children fear change because they are vulnerable and they know it. This girl needs as little change and as much stability as possible.

Agreed. This poor little girl has no real connection or continuity. If anything, my instinct is that she'd feel more at place in a white family rather than an Asian family because that is what she's known since she was four months old. She is displaced, socially and culturally, at a very critical age in her social and emotional development. The poor thing is probably confused as hell. She is a mix of cultures -- only her features denote any pure ethnicity -- and abandoned in a very real sense by those who raised her.

I agree with eyelid -- looking for placement in Korea is nonsensical. If she's lived in Hong Kong the longest, that's likely the culture she attaches herself with more. Why bring her to Korea? It's plain idiocy. So is the whole keeping her with ethnic Koreans in Hong Kong. You're not born into a culture. You're raised in it. Surround her with people that look like her... and then what? Hope she magically turns Korean? Hell, I've been surrounded by Filipinos my entire life and I still run screaming. For better or worse, being Filipino is my ethnicity but NOT the culture I immediately identify with.

That's why I don't buy this whole "culture shock" bullsh*t. Yes, cross ethnic adoptees can and often do have some kind of questioning about where they belong (and so do biracial children, for that matter) but unless the parents were treating her completely differently based on her ethnic background, there's no reason she should have ever had this supposed "culture shock".

The only people that "should" have this little girl IMHO is a family that she is accepting of and that is aware of her social and psychological history and issues and is willing to lovingly work with her to help heal her.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

The poor thing is probably confused as hell.

Imagine the utter rejection she must be feeling. Those "parents" deserve to be punched in the face. What incredible assholes. THEY need "support" in this "difficult time"? WTF?

I'd love to take her in myself, except I doubt Minnesota would be a much better idea than Korea in terms of familiarity.


The only people that "should" have this little girl IMHO is a family that she is accepting of and that is aware of her social and psychological history and issues and is willing to lovingly work with her to help heal her.

Definitely. And as soon as possible.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

A year in foster care...Korean consulate looking for placement...all these things point to a child who very much wants a family with no reason to question her belonging to them. This is incredibly sad. "Culture shock."

Riiiiight.

Any placement at this point would be subject to the child's willingness to accept it - anything less would be criminal.

If the biological parents actually placed this child for adoption, with the understanding they were doing what was best for their child...is it out of the range of understanding that they should be consulted again? Or are they to be considered innately evil because they 'gave up' and placed their child?

I remember the Lisa Steinberg case - where one child died at the hands of adoptive parents, and a second child was found at the scene, in extreme neglect.

In that case, the birth mother came forward and took her child back. And you never heard another thing about it. No, I take that back. Hedda Nussbaum would like to have a relationship with her once-adopted son - but the birth mother won't allow it. So much for someone who 'gave up' their child.

All I ask for is for someone to consider the birth parents position, and acknowledge them. Placement in Korea - they speak Cantonese and English there, too. Believe it.

It's only one option to consider. May there be many good choices for her to pick from.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

Any placement at this point would be subject to the child's willingness to accept it - anything less would be criminal.

The child is SEVEN! She can't possibly make that kind of decision! She should be consulted, certainly, but she is SEVEN!


is it out of the range of understanding that they should be consulted again? Or are they to be considered innately evil because they 'gave up' and placed their child?

No one is "evil" for placing a child - you're the only one who has said such a thing. They are just out of the picture.

(frozen)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Birth parents are never entirely out of the picture. Ignore that at your peril.

And the child has made some things very clear - hence, the abruption. Make it alone? You're joking, right?

[(Anonymous)]

To me, this isn't about birth parents rights; that's another bag all together. If they came forward to ask to have her again, they ought to be scrutinized as much as the next couple.

IMHO, Looking for placement primarily in Korea simply due to ethnicity (which seems to me to be the case because of how they're going about it -- citing the "culture shock" the child is undergoing, placing her with an ethnic Korean family in HK, etc.) is limiting the options, and seems to be equating culture with ethnicity. The way I'm reading "culture shock" as presented in the article is, "Well, she didn't like 'our' way of living." Which, again, I find strange considering that she wouldn't have known any other culture other than the one that adopted her.

Sure they speak Cantonese and English in Korea but is that the same cultural environment that she's already familiar with? HK is not Korea and vice versa. Placement in Korea gives her additional hurdles to her already full plate: language and an additional culture to learn and familiarize herself with. She's been in foster care in HK, meaning that HK is still probably the culture she's got the most familiarity with. Children are incredibly resilient and adaptable but this particular girl has a lot more to deal with, emotionally and socially, than others her age.

No, there aren't any ideal solutions or even solutions that suck less than the rest. What this hinges on is that the placement must be with a family that she can feel secure with and importantly, can love, and understands and works with her baggage and above all, love her back, unconditionally. Whether that's in HK, Korea or elsewhere with whatever ethnicity family remains to be seen.

[muimi07.livejournal.com]

Bugger, that was me. Not logged in on this computer :P

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Someone is going to have to find them - and advise them that THIS is the child they placed with someone they trusted.

*brrr*

Can you imagine....

But if they want in - and it's determined that it's safe to let them in - by all means.

I'd also LOVE to know which agency placed her. If an agency placed her at all. Four months is pretty young for an agency placement....

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

How incredibly stupid (and RACIST) of you. No cookie.

There are NO perfect solutions when you are talking about adoption. There is only what is.

What you have here is an adoption abrupting. One where the birth parents are unknown, and have an unknown status. And nobody has said word one about contacting them (and the records DO exist) and asking them what their wishes are. Korea has a long history of manufacturing "orphans." China does it as well - we know, full well going in - that any child placed with us from China has two very much alive birth parents, and is in reality no orphan.

You take that onboard.

I'm not saying this is the ONLY route. (Did I even imply that by saying biological parents actually have more of a claim to their own children than anyone else?) It's one that hasn't even been considered, and I think that's wrong.

You can ask your KOREAN brother. (Do you actually introduce him to everyone that way?) You can ask a large number of Korean adoptees - their stories are out on the net, and some of them are sincere heartbreakers. And adoptees' experiences do vary from person to person - one person who really doesn't care about their birth family can have a sibling who can't live without knowing.

What I'm advocating for is choice. It would seem this little girl has lost everything...EVERYTHING. Her birth family, her adoptive family, her culture of origin, her adoptive one (culture shock. BAH.) - would it be so terrible that one considers putting more than one or two options on the table to chose from? Try to give some of it back?

Children are placed internationally at all ages. Special needs children are often identified as such simply because they are older. That doesn't prevent it from happening every day - because placement with a family is always preferable to remaining in care.

She's been in foster care for a year now. I assure you - it hasn't been Dutch-speaking. Likely Cantonese - and English, because that's the language everyone can speak. All of your concerns about being plunged into a different environment? Happened a year ago. IT'S DONE. I object to the fact in that time - and it may have already been done and just not mentioned - the birth parents have not been contacted.

The fact that the Korean consulate has been pressed into service to find a new placement is telling. It doesn't sound like anything less than a "matching" family will resolve the child's issues, and they definitely exist. Merely Asian isn't up for grabs - they went to the child's culture of origin.

Placing emphasis on birth parents isn't some kind of liberal fantasy. It's actually quite conservative - it acknowledges that children (and their parents) have eternal rights to each other, that no court or agency has the right to terminate forever. Assuming that anyone can parent any child in an adoption just like they were your own is the fantasy - and I've gotten the education up close and personal, thank you very much.

I also have more than one adoptee in my immediate family to ask - and having done so, I can report that I never got the same answer twice.

"Automatically be comfortable." You're hormonal.

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

How incredibly stupid (and RACIST) of you.
oh please. *rolls eyes* It's YOU who is the racist here! My brother looks a little different from me and that doesn't matter a damn to me, to him, or to the rest of our family. To you, it's apparently the be-all and end-all.


One where the birth parents are unknown, and have an unknown status
I could not care less about the birth parents at this point, or their "rights" as you call them. This should be about what is best for a traumatized little girl. I am firm in the OBVIOUS truth that uprooting her and sending her to a country where she doesn't speak the language or know anyone is NOT good for her.


Did I even imply that by saying biological parents actually have more of a claim to their own children than anyone else?)
Why YES. You said they should have first dibs and that returning her was "only fair."


You can ask your KOREAN brother. (Do you actually introduce him to everyone that way?)
Why yes, of COURSE I introduce him to everyone that way! *rolls eyes AGAIN* I wonder, do you intend to introduce your potential Chinese child as "this is kind-of-my-daughter, but of course she's really her birth mother's daughter and not mine since that's immutable"?

Obviously, I brought up his ethnicity here to point out that _I_ actually have firsthand experience with Korean adoption, which YOU DO NOT.


of your concerns about being plunged into a different environment? Happened a year ago. IT'S DONE
So, like, if a person is raped, it totally doesn't matter if they are raped again, right? After all, it's already happened once! DUH, if she was traumatized a year ago, she should certainly not be traumatized AGAIN!

Also, no, there is no evidence she was plunged into a different environment. There's a big difference between placing a child with another local family and placing them in an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COUNTRY with people who SPEAK A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE. That's a WHOLE NEW level of trauma.

I do not understand why you do not appear to understand this. It's astoundingly obvious.


Assuming that anyone can parent any child in an adoption just like they were your own is the fantasy
Well, I guess I'm living the dream then. My brother was raised just like the rest of us since he was three months old and I consider him to be my brother as much as my sister was my sister. Maybe that's not the way you rolled with adoptees in your family but it sure is in mine.


I also have more than one adoptee in my immediate family to ask - and having done so, I can report that I never got the same answer twice.
The difference being that you apparently assume that every adoptee is exactly like the one in your family. And heck, maybe your family was not as accepting of the adoptee as mine as been.


"Automatically be comfortable." You're hormonal.
Taking notes from Rush Limbaugh, are you? It's nice to dismiss the viewpoints of others with a little convenient sexism.

I'm not "hormonal," I'm irritated at your bigoted viewpoint. You have no idea of what children are like or need, but profess to be the expert. You assume race is everything. You discount and disparage my relationship with my brother. These are legitimate reasons to be irritated.

(frozen)

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

You know. I could just delete this and ban you.

I'm the adoptive parent. You're the pregnant one who decided IVF was better than adoption.

Sounds like you're the one who needs to calm down.

...and gee, quit putting words in my mouth. They're filthy.