It's gotta get down -

[kyburg]

Because we need to talk about this until we're done, sick of it and know everything to know about it. I see no other way.

Racism - and it how it colors interpersonal perception, and hence, relationships and expectations of others.

I'll preface this now - I don't care what you use as a label. Reduce anyone down to two words and you're doing it wrong. You're not going to get it.

It's also a very blatant cognitive error, and the unhappiest people in the world do it without thinking or knowing how much damage it is doing to themselves and everyone around them.

Left.
Right.
Liberal.
Conservative.

And those don't even factor in gender or race. Let alone orientation.

Caitlin mentioned this yesterday.

Ferrett is up for it this morning.

And the rest of the media is chiming in -

It’s a familiar, even ubiquitous, miscommunication over the last ten years of the so-called culture wars: A black person speaks of racism or white privilege. The nearest halfway-privileged white person protests, “But I work for liberal causes. You’re lumping me with racists just because I’m white!”

The black person answers, “I’m not saying that you, personally, are a racist. I’m saying we live in a world where it’s easier to be white than it is to be black.”

“But I’m not part of that,” comes the reply.

“We’re all part of it,” insists the black person.

And the one I think most pertinent to me today - and I think was just what I needed for Cait -

At events for adoptees, I often hear foreign dignitaries say we should embrace our Korean heritage and be proud to be Korean. I find this hypocritical, especially since it’s vogue over there to destroy your face.

I don't think - today - that worrying about this is going to take up much time. I have such a huge disdain for the fashion industry in general, I can't help but think the kids will pick up on THAT much faster than anything else.

What can I say about all of the *bleep* going on over the 'fakery' of the Beijing Olympics?

Guys. I've had an adoption dossier to China for over a year and a half - they haven't even looked at it yet, and some of the direct quotes for WHY are that the Chinese government doesn't want to look bad during the Olympics. I understand that NBC *did* find a family picking up their daughter in China during the Olympics...did that hit anyone else's radar? Funny. Why not...after you've heard about 'enhanced' fireworks, lip-syncing singers and so on. Did it get squelched? Sure it could. Why not -

But this behavior is not uniquely Chinese, guys.

There's plenty of chatter about Russia/Georgia over in christianleft this morning - go read this and that...first three posts right now. GLURGE ALERT.

Racism as propaganda. Know it when you see it.

Keep it clean, keep it nice, keep it intelligent and respectful. Check your tempers at the door.

But let's talk.

I want a t-shirt that says 'It's Okay. White People Scare Me Too."

Both Nisei Week's start and Rakhi are on the same day this year. Maybe I should lobby for National Pancake Puff Day or something. Like I would. *rolls eyes*

Comments

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Squelch? Not a chance. I'd like to get this to a place where it is known, recognizable and everyone is sick to death of it. Where it simply has NO power anymore...and people poke fun at you for playing along those lines.

Instead of racism having the power to ruin your life. Many, many lives.

It's the shock that gets me. They took steps to make SURE everything would look good. SO SURPRISED HERE.

No, nobody is watching the Olympics. It's either Michael Phelps - again - or Dirty Laundry. I wonder what people think they're seeing anyway.

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

Squelch? Not a chance. I'd like to get this to a place where it is known, recognizable and everyone is sick to death of it. Where it simply has NO power anymore...and people poke fun at you for playing along those lines.

Okay, but how does the shirt play into it? Sometimes the best way to advocate change is to go about it positively, not negatively. The shirt you mentioned you want is not a positive shirt. Racism isn't just something white people are guilty of advocating. That's the point I'm getting at.

Also, I guess I'm not getting what point you're trying to get across.

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

If I get one person who sees the shirt, smirks and will then approach me - I win.

Granted, the humor has more than an edge to it - but the idea is to 1) Yeah, I know and 2) Yeah, I know and I don't want anything to do with it.

Also, I think it's pertinent to note that the only racism I could *ever* address - is mine. It's not a matter of pride - it's a matter of simple acknowledgment. Wrong was done - wrong IS still being done - by the entitled class (more often than not, white) and sometimes, simply having a white face implies consent to it.

I'd like to give it a great big black eye instead, ala Mel Brooks.

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

If I get one person who sees the shirt, smirks and will then approach me - I win.

But chances are very high that it won't happen. It's not a funny sentiment, nor is it a cute phrase. Any time you throw a color or a national name onto a shirt followed by "scare me," you're only showing you're harboring racist sentiments. It also becomes divisive, which is the opposite effect you mention working for.

I'm not arguing this because I feel sorry for the "white folk," but because I've seen enough racism towards many groups thrown around, that this just seems like a bad idea. I really hope you can see my point.

sometimes, simply having a white face implies consent to it.
This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard someone say. Are you implying that just because someone has a pale skin tone, they are guilty of perpetuating racism?? Because that is just as racist as saying, "Well, let's lock up all the Japanese in an internment camp," during WWII, or perhaps you're justifying the violence that was taken against so many people post 9/11 because they "LOOKED LIKE TERRORISTS," thus giving consent. You know the people who were targeted? People like my husband and my step-father. You have met both of them- do they look like terrorists to you? Do they look like enablers? Because their skin is brown, you're implying that they consented to what happened? Just because my skin is pale, do you imply that I consent to groups like the KKK?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would hate to be misinterpreting what you're saying.

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, you have to wear the neon orange tie. It's not pretty, but it gets your attention.

Self-directed racism? Hey, I just insulted myself! Hooray!

You know, the idea that people do *not* know the content of your character until they talk to you - isn't making the trip.

Think of it this way - and I'll use your own example as a reference.

People were imprisoned just for the color of their skin. Don't you think there might be some - not all, some - who might be a tad leery of folks who resemble the people who did it?

Believe me, I've had plenty of experiences where it was clear that the question was 'what are YOU doing here?' It can't be ignored - so, how to you address it?

I've used that line in passing more than once or twice. And in all honesty, it's received a favorable response (and some laughs).

If you don't talk - silence often gives consent. The consent is implied, not granted. Perhaps it's being a tad sensitive - but there you have it.

long winded, sorry

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

People were imprisoned just for the color of their skin. Don't you think there might be some - not all, some - who might be a tad leery of folks who resemble the people who did it?

It COULD be possible, but if that were the rule, rather than the exception, there would be significantly more unrest here.

What about in countries like Afghanistan, where the Taliban are the same skin tone as the people they oppressed? What about the visual resemblance between the Shiite and Sunni? Do all Sunnis look alike? What about the Russians versus the Georgians? The Russian army did some nasty things last week. I wonder though, could you pick out a Russian from a Georgian crowd to seek retribution?

As lostboydv mentioned, should I be cursing my Jewish ancestry because of the crucifixion of Jesus? Or should I hate myself because my English/Irish/Dutch ancestors did a lot of nasty things to the Indians, Chinese, Kenyans, and First Nation tribes across the globe? Maybe my Ojibwa blood should wage war on the blood of myself descended those terrible Brits. Maybe instead of marrying my mom, my dad should have waged war on his father and my mother for the atrocities that their race did, and keep everything separate- because interracial marriages should obviously not happen.

I did not consent to the destruction that happened, and you know that I'm not the type that remains silent. I was raised that way by my outspoken mother. Try being anti-war during the first gulf war, and see many Americans (regardless of race and gender) try to kick your ass, because "Saddam was a bad guy, Iraq needed to be bombed, and you were obviously out of your mind to be an anti-war person." Want racism in your neighborhood? Try walking down my street when I was in fifth grade getting picked on (people demanding fights with me) because my "dad was black." Did I seek retribution? No, I forgave, and moved on.

Set foot in small towns in Asian, Latin American and African countries (hell, even here in the US), and get the "What are YOU doing here?" look? I've done it (except for Africa). But getting looked at is far tamer than the bullying I was subjected to growing up in an interracial family. After 30 something years of the road I've tread though, the stares don't do much to me anymore. If it's just a stare, then so what? A stare is not fisticuffs, it's not a knife or a gun. Not to mention- just because someone gives you the "What are YOU doing here?" question, doesn't mean that is a bad thing. If you're truly that terrified of the questions, then become a hermit.

But I reiterate: wearing a shirt and spouting that little phrase you like so much is just not going to solve the problem.

Self-directed racism? Hey, I just insulted myself! Hooray! In reference to the shirt? You also stand to insult a LOT of your friends. Every time I've heard you mention that phrase "White people scare me," I can't help but wonder if you lump your plethora of white friends into that dough. It sort of insults me to see your friends objectified that way. Is it just as bad as justifying racist behavior against the African American community and then saying, "Well, some of my best friends are black!!!" ? Yes, yes, it is.

Actions often speak louder than words, yes. But words can really hurt too. So before you throw that phrase around, consider not only the person in the mirror, but the people you call your friends. Racism is racism not matter where it comes from. Actions like this are not something that Jesus would condone, nor would Buddha. Nor would Martin Luther King Jr, or Gandhi approve. You want to make a change? I suggest going about in a different manner. Otherwise, how are you that much better than what you wish to squelch?

Re: long winded, sorry

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Cursing. Hmm. That's an interesting way to put it.

Is simple awareness 'cursing' then? You're not making that distinction and it's a huge one.

Hon, when I've said it - I've said it in full view of everyone in the room. And yes, when I tell people about being 'the only cracker in the box' - it's more often to entirely white audiences in response to 'how is it REEEEALLY like to live where you do?'

Because - ?

I think as a group, (and this is the one I belong to and have to make check marks in boxes for) mine is the one that thinks it can color itself any color it wants...at will. We come into it blank, with little perceived culture of our own, and co-opt whatever we find interesting. We steal. We march roughshod over the identities of others, taking the shiny, and discarding the rest.

And remain completely oblivious to it. We live in 'safe' neighborhoods. We send our kids to 'good' schools.

Those categories rarely imply other races or cultures as an assumption...and it gets worse when we deal with Jim's family, with their worldview. I don't say much about the reaction we got when we decided to adopt internationally...and then actually got a placement...because the impression we got was that we were getting screwed over and should have adopted domestically (white) and that would have been SO MUCH EASIER.

Frankly, if I insulted them - good. But I doubt they even gave it a second thought - Racist language is rarely taken seriously if you're white. Certainly not in the same context.

Proud to be - ? Well, not every day. I can take some pleasure in knowing I'm ethnically linked to the group that told Hitler to boink himself when it came to their Jewish population during WWII. But then I have to balance it with the same ethnic population in California putting their Japanese neighbors into camps, then taught from Anne Frank's diary in the 70's...but would never admit, let alone teach, what was done right here, at the same time.

That's pretty scary, isn't it?

And that's just one example.

you're still missing my point.

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

Is simple awareness 'cursing' then? You're not making that distinction and it's a huge one.

I didn't say that cursing was simple awareness. You've taken it completely out of context. In the case of Jewish descendants vs the crucifixion of Jesus (assuming he actually existed), I wasn't implying that I would HEX my ancestors- nor hurl obscenities at them. My point is that if you look down every single person's family line, you will find that someone way back did something possibly outlandishly bad to someone else. At the same time, it's possible that someone in our ancestral lines did something positive for instigating peace between others.

The point is that yes, you study your history, and learn from it. Hurling words (no matter whom they're directed at) is NOT GOING TO MAKE any positive difference. "Reverse racism," regular racist words? Not so much. Helping people out? That makes a difference. Making it so that everyone is either equally privileged or equally oppressed, that will make a difference. Tasteless slurs about genetics? Not so much.

So perhaps I should phrase it more bluntly: What do you do, to curb racism in your neighborhood? What do you do to promote equality? When you get negative responses about the adoption, do you set them straight? Or do you just mouth to your friends about how XXXX people are a bunch of idiots? Because for all of the bad mouthing of people (like GWB, for example), what good does it do? My example, GWB, still got away with literally murder. And all because the people couldn't be bothered to do more than just talk and bad mouth his administration.

That was the point I was trying to get at.

I have the feeling that we have reached an impasse, but I hope I'm wrong.

Re: you're still missing my point.

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

Suffering acute lack of flame at this point. Will be back as soon as I can give this the attention it is due.

Re: you're still missing my point.

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

Hrm, well, considering that it's been a couple days since I posted that reply, and you posted other things since then, I figured that the conversation was over.

That said, I was talking to a friend whose family is from HK yesterday about something completely unrelated, and he mentioned that there is a strong "purist" movement on the mainland, and that marrying anyone non-Chinese is somewhat taboo. Of course, there has been enough mingling over the centuries, that this movement is somewhat laughable.

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[lostboydv.livejournal.com]

Let me suggest a different shirt.

There's an episode of South Park where Stan's dad says "NIGGER" on national TV as a guess to the final puzzle on Wheel of Fortune. Then at school, his black friend is behaving with anoyance at Stan's attempt to minimalize it. Throughout the episode Stan tries to show understanding to Token (that's the black kid's name). Finally, at the end, he realizes that he just doesn't understand, and that's kind of the point. So he goes to Token and says, "I get it now: I don't get it." Basically, telling Token that he doesn't know what it's like to be black, and he never will.

I think a shirt showing Stan facing Token and saying that phase would make a lot better shirt to achieve a smiliar effect of showing your neighbors that you acknowledge the situation and don't participate in the "implied consent" you feel your skin inherently carries (although I find that concept alarming and sad, akin to a self-hating Jew who feels he needs to apologixze for killing Jesus).

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[redqueenofevil.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen this episode. I'm kind of curious now.

Re: pot, kettle, anyone?

[lostboydv.livejournal.com]

Although, let me add that you can wear whatever shirt you want, of course. Ultimately it's freedom of speech and expression. I'm not trying to be a fascist.