Yes, thou ART mortal -

[kyburg]

I strongly suspect someone is doing a lot of explaining right now.

That is all.

Comments

Re: In Memoriam

[bitpig.livejournal.com]

Maybe America will become a place where somebody can claim to love Jesus again and not be seen immediately as an asshole. This was his legacy--to make Christian a dirty word.

"All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." -- Matt 10:23

***

"Judge not, lest ye be judged" does not mean "do not believe in moral absolutes". It means "be preapred to be judged by the same standards you use in judging your fellow man." We are to be judges of actions, not men.

Jesus Himself judged many people's actions (Matthew 15:14; 23; John 8:44,55; 9:41, among others) and encouraged His followers to do the same (John 7:24, among others). For example, he called people names, including "snakes" and "sons of vipers" [Mt 23;33], which was an insult of the same class as calling someone a son of a bitch would be today. He also referred to people as "whitewashed tombs" in the same chapter, which is more or less tantamount to calling someone a sack of shit. He once sarcastically asked his followers “how much longer must I put up with you?” [Mark 9:19]. And let's not forget the time He literally whipped the asses of the moneychangers and animal-sellers in the Temple precincts (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; John 2:13-22). Our Lord was a perfect man, but he was not what we would call a "nice" man. "Nice" means "jerking people off so you don't have to deal with them honestly".

Instead of being nice, Jesus was loving. In other words, He confronted people with their immoral actions, and challenged them to stop doing them. A perfect example of this is the well-known incident where Jesus was presented with a woman caught in the act of peddling her ass [John 8:1-11]. After pointing out that the woman's accusers were no saints themselves (i.e. they were all guilty of equal or worse sins), the Lord told the woman that she was forgiven — but that she'd better stop doing what she had been doing if she wanted to stay that way. "Go, and sin no more", He told her. Note that He didn't say ,"Hey, baby, it's okay to be a whore. That's the way God made you. Do what feels right and be nice and you'll be okay by Me." He said "go and sin no more". He made the point that being a whore is sinful and should be avoided. The same goes for adultery, fornication, masturbation, homosexuality, misuse of food and drink, lying, cheating, stealing, coveting, selfishness, dereliction of duty, uncharitable behavior, and all the other things we convince outselves are OK but know deep down aren't.

So those who believe in Jesus are seen immediately as assholes, are they? Good. The only true Christianity is the kind that pisses people off. It is intended to piss people off. Jesus was no call-me-mellow-yellow high-school guidance counselor trying to make sure everybody feeeeels good. The whole kum-bah-yah "hippie Jesus" thing was tired thirty years ago. Jesus did not come to bring peace on Earth. Instead, He came to rub people's faces in their own filthy behavior and challenge people to live contrary to their natural desires. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth", He said; "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.' A man's enemies will be the members of his own household." [Matthew 10:34-36]

PS - Sorry to ramble onabout this using your LJ, Ky. I will refrain from further comment here. Anyone wishing to discuss this further is invited to e-mail me (bchan@cheapdisposable.com) or visit me at bitpig.

Re: In Memoriam

[kyburg.livejournal.com]

I don't think Jesus said people would hate His followers because He could call a spade a spade, when it was necessary.

It was because He came to up-end the apple cart, so to speak - and force people to *gasp* love one another. And treat them as well. Get along and all that. Stop killing each other. Little things. (As well as set some standards for acceptable behavior - and tolerance. Love your enemy *gasp* and all that.)

There's a lot of discussion to get into - if one had the time and inclination - about what 'sin no more' actually meant in that context. Think a moment - a woman actually making her own living back in that day could have been considered sinful, in and of itself, if you talk to the right people for your interpretation. (Was selling something that belonged to her the sin (because a woman was considered chattel then, body and soul), or having sex at all in the first place, outside marriage/ownership?)

You're a girl, you get to figure that one out, in addition to the whole Savior thing. (And then you get told you don't "need" ordination because you can make babies. Come again?) "Sin no more" I think applied equally to everyone in the discussion, you want my opinion. Don't want it? Hey, it was free for the taking - but you don't have to.

The more Biblical discussions I get into, the more convinced I am that the years and years you can spend in divinity schools are actually needed to get all of it in (and out) of one's system. And in the end - you make up your own mind, based on what you know. Or what your peers convince you of, based on the arguments they can put forth.

Problem is, I'm a girl. Yanno. One key reason I'm not Catholic. I guess I'm fortunate - some religious faiths don't even grant me a soul!

And if Jesus ever said anything specific about homosexuality - I'm up to hear it. Jesus Christ, mind.

If I wanted a flame war, boy. I should write an entire post on this stuff. And what constitutes "this stuff?"

Not whether "true" (WTF) Christianity is intended to piss people off - if it's working.

"This stuff" = either one of us might be wrong. Maybe both of us. Maybe we're both correct, depending. Neither one of us has been given permission to judge - so what's the point?

That's not "trying to make sure everybody feeeeels good." That's being honest about your place in the order of things. Humble. That sort of thing.

If those who believe in Jesus are seen immediately as assholes (by people who don't know anything more about Christianity than that example), I can point directly to a few very visible people who have made their daily bread (and a whole lot more than they needed to live) preaching simple hatred, and calling it the word of the Lord - call it cause and effect. Call it what you will. I've seen it. And it's a sad, sad reality.

I see it much the same way as Cardinal Mahoney put it:

Before we are anything else -- any sex, ethnicity, nationality or citizenship -- we need to be the Body of Christ, sisters and brothers by our Baptism. Every one of us needs to know by heart some of the music, vocabulary, movement, and ways if thinking and feeling that are not of our own background. The larger society we are a part of needs this witness.

I do very well with Catholics, ironic as it may seem - because where it matters, is where we agree. All sin and fall short of the glory of God. And you know the rest.

Re: In Memoriam

[dudemungus.livejournal.com]

My point was/is not that I think Christians are assholes--I think a lot of assholes pretend to be Christian to compensate for some kind of percieved character flaw or to hide a bad case of self-loathing (male hookers and meth anyone?), or worse yet, to make a couple of bucks off the rubes. To a point, where the assholes trying to compensate and the assholes trying to make a couple bucks drown out the voices of actual Christians, who are in fact a majority. And this leaves the impression that all Christians are assholes and hypocrites, and that this is somehow imperative to christ's teachings.

But you may ask, "how does Tinky Winky fit into this?" Other than a shameless snakeoil salesman trying to attach his fading brand to the rising star fo the day, that is.